Wussification of Female Characters

[Greenday]

Here's your only warning now, this thread can contain spoilers.

I was watching Ender's Game and one of the huge things that bugs me about the movie is how much of a wuss they make Petra Arkanian. In the book, she is a very strong character. She's the best shooter in school, she is tough, she's so aggressive psychologists had her tested to make sure she was actually female. In the movie, she's...really toned down. She plays a much softer role, an almost semi-romantic interest for the main character. Didn't like this at all.

Then it got me thinking about the books. In the second book of the Shadow series, Shadow of the Hegemon, she's still a tough badass who takes shit from no one and dishes it out. She calls people out for being idiots and takes advantage of their stupidity. She had a chance to be a character to look up to. After being rescued by Bean from being hostage, her character is absolutely destroyed. After this, she wants only two things for the rest of the series: to marry Bean and have babies. That's it. She plays no other role in the books. It's absolutely pathetic. Orson Scott Card had an easy shot to create a strong female literary character and absolutely blew it.

Happens all the time in other books, just my most recent example.

[Gravekeeper]

Well, Orson is kind of a sexist, homophobic asshole and Ender eventually becomes his giant space roving Mary Sue. But I know what you're saying and it drives me nuts too. Especially when it happens to a character that has already been long established as a strong female character.

Case in point; Metroid: Other M. Let a different studio swing at the Metroid franchise and they turn Samus Aran into a sniveling insecure generic anime girl with a pixie haircut desperate for male approval. And more recently, she's slowly being de-evolved into male eye candy. You know, rather than the stoic self sufficient intergalactic bounty hunter that's single handled laid waste to some odd 5 entire planets worth of space pirates and horrific alien killing machines.

Its far from the only example from the gaming industry too.

And don't get me started on the comics industry. >.>

[BlaqueKatt]

I haven't read the books personally(not my thing), but I heard the titular character from "the girl with the dragon tattoo" went the same route(friend read the books and was disgusted, warning me away from them). started out fearless and ended up getting cosmetic surgery and becoming more "feminine"(read stereotype girly, long hair, makeup, dresses) to "win the affection" of the male protagonist.

Personally my two favorite female literary characters are from the "Benny Imura" (young adult) series by Jonathan Mayberry. Phoenix "nix" Riley, and Lila-"The lost girl", I'm a tad worried as the series is becoming a graphic novel series and has been picked up for a movie franchise, and I really don't want to see the characters softened. The characters all have some pretty intense psychological trauma(books are set 15 years post zompoc-zombies are just mostly background, a potentially dangerous nuisance), but none of them fall to pieces in any major way, they screw up, and at times fail to act resulting in very bad situations, but they don't become simpering ninnies, or total overcompensating badasses with no regard for themselves or others. They're balanced, and they change and grow over the course of the series, like teenagers should.

The author was fantastic at building characters, and his 4 Brahm Stoker awards for the series are well deserved.

[Ginger Tea]

I saw a screen grab of Shamus and I thought it was a screenie from Dead or Alive or some other 'jiggle physics' enabled game. At first I thought "whats new the franchise was built on T&A." then I read the text and went "oh that's her from that game." never had a NES growing up and never played it on SNES, so it was a lot later when I found out it wasn't a robot but a woman in a suit.

[KabeRinnaul]

I saw a screen grab of Shamus and I thought it was a screenie from Dead or Alive or some other 'jiggle physics' enabled game. At first I thought "whats new the franchise was built on T&A." then I read the text and went "oh that's her from that game." never had a NES growing up and never played it on SNES, so it was a lot later when I found out it wasn't a robot but a woman in a suit.

I don't mind Samus—or any female character—being attractive or sexual. It's just when they start sidelining other character traits in favor of things they think will make her more appealing to the male audience.

Contrast the mess they made of her in Other M with her appearance in Super Smash Bros Brawl. Through a good portion of the "Subspace Emissary" story mode, she doesn't have the power armor, instead wearing a skintight "zero suit" that normally goes under the armor. Sure, she spends about the first half of her story mode wearing that eye candy, but she was still always a capable combatant, and once she gets her suit back she goes right back to blasting things. No need for a male character to step in for her, unless you want to count that bit with Ridley and Pikachu, but seriously, that's Ridley, and Pikachu is a tiny furry war machine.

And to go ahead and hit the other popular example, the Tomb Raider reboot did not ruin Lara's character.

[Greenday]

And to go ahead and hit the other popular example, the Tomb Raider reboot did not ruin Lara's character.

I can't speak for the games since I never played them, but besides being hot, Angelina Jolie is pretty kick ass in most of her movies and isn't some fluff love interest in her movies.

[KabeRinnaul]

I can't speak for the games since I never played them, but besides being hot, Angelina Jolie is pretty kick ass in most of her movies and isn't some fluff love interest in her movies.

Basically, the reboot gave her an origin story. So the old games were basically Prince Of Persia with guns & boobs, and she showed little or no emotion through the entire series. And in the new game, she's thrown into an adventure for the first time. So she's afraid, she cries, and she generally reacts like something other than a stoic badass video game protagonist.

A lot of people think that made her weaker, but I think it just gave her some much-needed character.

Angry Joe covers it pretty well.

[Gravekeeper]

And to go ahead and hit the other popular example, the Tomb Raider reboot did not ruin Lara's character.

The reboot really strengthened her character. Or rather, gave her one to begin with. She wasn't much more than guns, tits and shorts before. Never cared much for the older Tomb Raider games. But I really liked the reboot. It had a kind of The Descent vibe too it. While giving Lara a solid character arc and origin.

[Talon]

Well, Orson is kind of a sexist, homophobic asshole...

Homophobic bigot yes, but I've never got the sense that Card was sexist. That said though he did pretty much ruin Petra's character in the Shadow book series.

But don't get me started on Card.

Case in point; Metroid: Other M. Let a different studio swing at the Metroid franchise and they turn Samus Aran into a sniveling insecure generic anime girl with a pixie haircut desperate for male approval.

Other M Samus actually refused to use her suit's Varia function without her daddy-figure's approval, and actually gets hurt traveling through lava-zones for it. Yeeeaaah you couldn't pay me to play Other M.

[Sarah Valentine]

When Other M was first announced I got all excited and couldn't wait for it to come out, then I actually played it. I didn't even finish the game, I took it back and got something else. I was pissed off that they did that, Samus doesn't ask for permission she just does shit and is awesome.

[Gravekeeper]

Homophobic bigot yes, but I've never got the sense that Card was sexist.

Give Speaker For The Dead a whirl. -.-

Other M Samus actually refused to use her suit's Varia function without her daddy-figure's approval, and actually gets hurt traveling through lava-zones for it. Yeeeaaah you couldn't pay me to play Other M.

I heard about that, yeah. The most fucked up part about it is that Other M takes place between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion. Meaning she's gone through 3 Metroid Prime games, Metroid, Metroid 2 and Super Metroid by that point.

[Racket_Man]

BUT if you had to endure what Petra did in the Shadow series (being kidnapped and basically tortured and constantly threatened by a total psychopath and with the fear of Bean AND her being killed by said psychopath up until the time Bean killed him) AND in the fact that she did burn out really really bad in the original books (Ender' Game and Ender's Shadow) at the age like 14 or 15 AND take into account that canon says there were VERY few females in Battle School AND in the fact that Bonzo physically abused her while in Salamander Army

AND most importantly she had NO childhood from age 6 on-----

I think that one could give her a pass at a later time in life for just wanting to stop running, stop "playing the war game", stop doing whatever and live what would pass for a normal life like her parents, Ender's parents, heck Even Bean's bio parents.

Ya know "Stop the world, I want to get off"

NOt every female character has to end up a superhero

I will agree that movie Petra did come across as a very toned down person especially when they introduced the Petra-Ender bit of implied romance thing.

[Talon]

Give Speaker For The Dead a whirl. -.-

I have read Speaker for the Dead. I freely admit once long ago I counted it and Ender's Game among my favourite reads.

I don't recall anything blatantly sexist about Speaker. I do remember thinking the novel was curiously dated. A government 3000 years in the future still does archaic things like allowing its member worlds to adopt an official religion? Seriously? With that, on the book's Catholic-licensed world you get stupid nonsense like vilifying contraception and divorce, the "Index of Forbidden Truths", and atheist is apparently considered a bad word.

I suspect if I went back and read Speaker now, given the disgust and contempt I have for the author, I'd view it in the worst light possible.

BUT if you had to endure what Petra did in the Shadow series (being kidnapped and basically tortured and constantly threatened by a total psychopath and with the fear of Bean AND her being killed by said psychopath up until the time Bean killed him) AND in the fact that she did burn out really really bad in the original books (Ender' Game and Ender's Shadow) at the age like 14 or 15 AND take into account that canon says there were VERY few females in Battle School AND in the fact that Bonzo physically abused her while in Salamander Army

AND most importantly she had NO childhood from age 6 on-----

Except Petra wasn't the only one who went through that. Other Battle School kids were also kidnapped. Petra also wasn't the only one to burn out during the space battles, just the first to break. Bean and Ender were also physically abused by Bonzo, neither of them got wussied out the way Petra did. OSC dropped the ball with her character.

[anakhouri]

I hear you. I love Alastair Reynolds but one of several reasons I don't like his Revelation Space series is that he ruined my favorite character...Ana Khouri.

She's a supreme badass for the first two books. Then she gets pregnant and has a baby and just loses it. Total mommy-pansy crap. Becoming a mother doesn't wussify you; if anything it usually make women fiercer.

Luckily his other standalone books are far better.

[Greenday]

I suspect if I went back and read Speaker now, given the disgust and contempt I have for the author, I'd view it in the worst light possible.

Clearly you guys know more about Card than I do. I didn't pick up on racism or sexism in the books. I understand he's a homophobe but that's about it.