Hogwarts is a terrible school.

[s_stabeler]

to be fair, we don't know if Dumbledore had any option- IIRC, someone who'se name comes out of the goblet HAS to compete. the actual fridge logic is why there is an artefact that can bind someone to do something without their consent, and it's POSSIBLE that nobody realised the consent was optional.

[Kheldarson]

to be fair, we don't know if Dumbledore had any option- IIRC, someone who'se name comes out of the goblet HAS to compete. the actual fridge logic is why there is an artefact that can bind someone to do something without their consent, and it's POSSIBLE that nobody realised the consent was optional.

Given that you had to put your own name in the cup, consent is assumed. That's why Harry's being chosen was considered a high risk issue.

[s_stabeler]

I'm talking about it being physically possible to be bound w/o your consent. What if (for example) someone had put in the name of a student who actually was of age? or, considering the Goblet can apparently be Confunded, a first-year?

[flybye023]

Yeah. Barty Crouch says that the name coming out of the cup constitutes a magically binding contract. My gripe with that is that someone could have (and most likely did) grab a piece of Harry's old homework, tear his name off and put it in the cup. If this make a contract, then there should be some way to call fraud. Loophole in the magical spectrum?

On the subject of Math and normal Core classes. Would you want to read a book about a 10 year old struggling with Trig 2 or about Potions and Transfiguration?

My issue isn't that reading about "normal" subjects wouldn't have made as exciting a read; the issue is that those subjects just seem to disappear entirely. Wizard or not, you'll need math and reading, even possibly language classes. Or a music class. Do wizards not desire to make music? Having it as an apparent elective as an older student doesn't quite cover it. Although I do stand by my original statement that it's entirely possible those classes happen "off-screen."

[gremcint]

What I mean about Hagrid is he basically never finished high school and now he's teaching.

[Kheldarson]

I'm talking about it being physically possible to be bound w/o your consent. What if (for example) someone had put in the name of a student who actually was of age? or, considering the Goblet can apparently be Confunded, a first-year?

Except it's mentioned that it takes a powerful wizard to confuse the Goblet. Ergo, it's not a common occurrence.

On top of that, ignoring powerful wizards with a penchant for the dramatic, you can't put someone else's name into the cup. Remember, the Age Line was there to prevent underage students from putting their names in. There would've been other protections up if getting around that restriction was as easy as getting someone else to put your name in.

So, again ignoring powerful wizards with a penchant for the dramatic, under normal circumstances, the Goblet recognizes only three schools and only accepts a name if the person themselves puts it in. The Age Line was added to prevent underage students from participating, which means the Goblet itself doesn't recognize age. All of which means that it's typically a long shot that any student will be bound without consent because how many students start at school with powerful wizards with a penchant for the dramatic as enemies?

What I mean about Hagrid is he basically never finished high school and now he's teaching.

Granted on the never finished high school, but some schools don't care as long as you're a proven expert in your field. Which Hagrid is, despite his idiosyncrasies.

[s_stabeler]

my issue is that there really should be a modification to the enchantment on the Goblet so that, if it is proved that they didn't enter their name, or are ineligible, then they can be released from the contract. It might not be a common occurrence, but is it really a good idea to take the risk, when, under normal circumstances, it would be a death sentence for someone thrown into the tournament against their will?

But that's actually clouding the real issue. The Goblet can bind someone to a magical contract they haven't agreed to. ( note here I'm talking about it being POSSIBLE, not likely) Ergo, it is possible to be bound by a magical contract you haven't agreed to. THAT is a serious problem.

[Kheldarson]

my issue is that there really should be a modification to the enchantment on the Goblet so that, if it is proved that they didn't enter their name, or are ineligible, then they can be released from the contract. It might not be a common occurrence, but is it really a good idea to take the risk, when, under normal circumstances, it would be a death sentence for someone thrown into the tournament against their will?

But that's actually clouding the real issue. The Goblet can bind someone to a magical contract they haven't agreed to. ( note here I'm talking about it being POSSIBLE, not likely) Ergo, it is possible to be bound by a magical contract you haven't agreed to. THAT is a serious problem.

Yes, it is possible. However, you have to look at likelihood of such shenanigans happening as well as the shenanigans resulting in the wrong student being chosen. The Goblet chooses the best candidate to fill the role of Champion for the school. Not sure what the criteria is, but one presumes some amount of skill, experience, and willingness is taken into account.

Remember, in order to guarantee Harry got chosen, Barty had to trick the cup into thinking four schools were competing. Otherwise, it's possible all of this would be moot because Cedric was the student most prepared and willing for the challenge from Hogwarts.

It's more or less saying that we need to find a fix to a problem that has only one loophole that'll pop up in only the most convoluted of circumstances.

[s_stabeler]

again, you are missing the point. I'm saying that the mere fact that you can be bound by a magical contract you did not yourself agree to is a problem.

[Kheldarson]

again, you are missing the point. I'm saying that the mere fact that you can be bound by a magical contract you did not yourself agree to is a problem.

And I'm saying that while it's a problem, worrying about it is like worrying that the bank is going to declare you dead and give your money to somebody else. Sure, it could happen, but the steps for it to happen are so ridiculous, why would you establish blocks to protect against it?

[s_stabeler]

my issue is that we don't know if other magical contracts can have the same problem or not.

to use a different example, what if (say) Lucius Malfoy could have signed a magical contract binding Harry Potter to be Lord Voldemort's slave? The Goblet is pretty much irrelevant- it's that a magical contract can be formed without one party's consent.

[KabeRinnaul]

At this point, you're stretching the threat beyond anything realistically implied by the story.

It's almost like someone who had their bank account cleaned out through identity theft declaring that banks can't be trusted, because anyone can just waltz in and take your money.

Any real answer on this would require much more in-depth knowledge of how the Goblet - and magically-binding contracts in general - works than is available.

[Kaylyn]

In the 3rd book when Hermione gets her time turner she says that it took all summer to convince the MOM to let her use it and its so that she can take Muggle Studies and a very advanced math class on top of her normal classes. So the classes are offered if you want to take them.

It was my understanding that Arithmancy was basically numerology. So while math is involved, it's primarily a form of divination. Apparently, one Hermione can tolerate, as opposed to the astrology, dream interpretation, tasseomancy, and crystal-gazing taught in Divinations class.

[s_stabeler]

At this point, you're stretching the threat beyond anything realistically implied by the story.

It's almost like someone who had their bank account cleaned out through identity theft declaring that banks can't be trusted, because anyone can just waltz in and take your money.

Any real answer on this would require much more in-depth knowledge of how the Goblet - and magically-binding contracts in general - works than is available.

hardly-we have one confirmed case of a magically binding contract being imposed on someone without their will. I'll admit that we don't know how it works- but it is still pretty disturbing that it can happen at all. Do I expect a definitive yes/no as to if it's possible? no. But the fact that- within what we know- it is possible is somewhat disturbing.

[Eisa]

hardly-we have one confirmed case of a magically binding contract being imposed on someone without their will. I'll admit that we don't know how it works- but it is still pretty disturbing that it can happen at all. Do I expect a definitive yes/no as to if it's possible? no. But the fact that- within what we know- it is possible is somewhat disturbing.

I can agree with that, it is pretty disturbing. Sure, this time is a once-in-a-million-years chance of it occurring, but it does raise questions (at least to me) about what happens with other magical contracts, and if it's possible with other magical contracts, too.