Hogwarts is a terrible school.

[gremcint]

First off lets talk curriculim, is it normal in the british education system to stop teaching mathematics and essay writing at 11 years old? I mean it's assumed they can handle anything they need to for those from then on. Each book they talked about the different classes taken and I don't remember any biology or sex ed ever being mentioned. I understand the lack of science classes but no studying how the either the muggle or the wizard government works?

Then there's the grounds, you're away at boarding school and there's a great big forest right next door, but you can't go there ever because it's full of lions and tigers and bears that will eat you. You can't go for a swim because of the merpeople in the lake and that great tree that would be great to read a book under? it will straight up murder you.

Now let's talk inside the school, oh did you know that there are giant spiders and snakes in the school? there are things that can literally kill you wandering the halls sometimes. The school will literally rearrange itself around you and is large enough to get lost in for years. Oh you want to go to bed, well too bad you forgot the password so now you have to sit outside in the hall until a teacher finds you and will probably punish you. Oh and there are ghosts, they are harmless but at least one has been known to spy on boys while they are bathing.

Now for the subjects they do teach. Herbology, here handle these plants that can literally knock you out if the earmuffs the school supplies aren't good enough. There doesn't seem to be anything called a training broom that can only go to a certain height, no they basically give you a small aircraft with no training whatsoever and are surprised when one of them breaks their wrist. I'm surprised none of them are dead. They let someone who was expelled from the very same school teach a class about dangerous animals and another teacher is literally dead. Want to take extra classes? no problem they'll give a 13 year old access to TIME TRAVEL. I'm sorry the temporal anomaly wiped out a galaxy but I was gonna be late to Herbology.

Then there's the punishments for misbehaviour. carving words into flesh and being forced to write in your own blood is one thing but being made to go into that very same forest at night to find a wounded animal as detention when you aren't even 12? yegads, how did it take 4 books for a student to die?

I haven't even touched on the death trap that is quidditch.


Though it might all be worth it to never have to take a PE class...

[TheHuckster]

I know, right? It's a wonder half the entire class didn't get killed in the first book.

There's a reason the school's in such a secret location that's only accessible via phasing through a column at the train station: No bobbies can raid the joint and shut it down. Lawsuits from victims' families are also probably thrown out of court due to the defendants hiding in this area.

[HYHYBT]

There doesn't seem to be anything called a training broom that can only go to a certain height...

That, they *do* have; it's just that they're not for people old enough to go to Hogwarts. Little children play with them at the campground before the World Cup. (We, likewise, teach people to drive in real cars; allowing for magical forms of healing, it's not that much worse and may even be safer.)

[Rageaholic]

I was always disturbed by part in the first book where the kids have to go into the forest as punishment. Because a forest that has 10 times more things that can kill you than a muggle forest is the perfect place for kids! :rollseye:

[gremcint]

That, they *do* have; it's just that they're not for people old enough to go to Hogwarts. Little children play with them at the campground before the World Cup. (We, likewise, teach people to drive in real cars; allowing for magical forms of healing, it's not that much worse and may even be safer.)

yes but you can't fall out of a car at 300 ft if your hand slips and you saw how fast Neville lost control of his broom day one. And driver's ed? 1 teacher per student driver.

[Bloodsoul]

See, this is why my D&D sorceress dropped out of school… just to hang around with the fringes of society to learn poisoncraft and how to fight with weapons like daggers, spears, maces, and crossbows.

Nevermind.

[s_stabeler]

to be fair,
a) it's fairly obvious that wizard kids are, in fact, significantly harder to ll than others.
b) we don't actually see a true flying lesson- Neville got injured because he lost control of his broom. From what Madam Hooch said, thye weren't going to rise very high at first- probably for the exact reason to minimise injuries if anyone fell off.
c) Hagrid had been exonerated by the time he was hired to teach. Therefore, he can't be held agianst the school- indeed, note that the only injury was from a student deliberately trying to get hurt to get rid of him.
d) considering the earmuffs completely block out sound, i suspect they are enchanted to block out sound.
e) remember that almost all injuries can actually be fixed in minutes- so a wizard's idea of seriously hurt may well be different from a muggle's perspective.
f) there has been ONE death in at least 50 years, excepting a time when the school was under armed invasion. Even then, deaths were confined to those who deliberately stayed to fight. I'm pretty sure that's a pretty good safety record.
to be fair about the Forest, it's clearly NOT a typical punishment- and, to be fair, according to Hagrid, nothing in the Forest would harm them while he was around. It's not like they were led into the forest and left there.

also, to be fair, the spiders were under a specific agreement not to harm the kids. As for the snake, that was unknown to the school administration.

as for the tree- students ARE specifically warned agianst it.

as for the lake- actually, there is a canonical case where someone went swimming in the lake ( krum in GOF) and they were fine. The Merpeople never actually try to harm students. The reason nobody goes swimming is because the lake is too cold.

so Hogwarts is better than it sounds- plus, I hate to say it, but Harry has far from a normal Hogwarts education.

[flybye023]

Though I've had some of the same "issues" with HP that Gremcint has, I've come to the conclusion that the series was basically written for children who may not think of such things. Most of my complaints are just thoughts and things to think about for fun

I agree with Gremcint about the school curriculum. I do wonder though, if those classes are held, just off-screen. If I remember right, we only hear about 5 core classes (Potions, Transfiguration, Charms, Defense against the Dark Arts, Care of Magical Creatures) and they aren't all held every day. That leaves possibly a couple of class periods that we don't know about. For example, we know about Arithmancy, Runes, and Muggle Studies that are chosen by individual students and not required for all. I don't see why Math and Reading/Grammar couldn't be included.

I also wonder about whether there is a formal curriculum. It seems that every teacher can do just about whatever they want and there are no educational goals set by the goverment or school governors that the school and children have to meet. Even though Gilderoy Lockhart was a pretty mediocre wizard, if he had had a standard set of goals for his class and some kind of oversight, it needn't have been as useless for the students as it was.

I'm also a little bothered about the cavalier attitude the wizarding world has to the Muggles and wars. Apparently, they consider themselves completely apart from their Muggle countrymen and don't feel obliged to fight the wars but I'm sorry, even with wizarding skills, they benefit from the peace and freedom England has. Imagine how much harder it would be to remain hidden under a regime like the Soviet Union where neighbors were encouraged to spy on and report about their neighbors. Sure, wizards can do memory charms and stuff, but the need to do so would be more frequent and more of a hassle under such a government. Don't fight the wars if you don't want to, but show a little respect for the Muggles that did.

Also, I think it's kind of funny that they don't read Muggle books, watch TV, or listen to Muggle music. Bach and Debussy, Shakespeare and Poe are somehow not as talented or worthwhile? The Beatles, Taylor Swift, Katy Perry aren't just as enjoyable because they're not wizards? I find it hard to believe that these things would be totally ignored even by an insular society if they weren't specifically forbidden--which they're not. It seems more suprising to me considering that many students are Muggle-born.

[gremcint]

I should clarify I adore the books and think it'd be neat as hell but more and more as I thought about it I don't know if I'd ever want to go to Hogwarts myself and then at 3am this essay was born.

[flybye023]

I figured you did but that doesn't mean we can't have, shall we say, less favorable opinions on it. I think it was the Nostagia Critic that said something like sometimes the best critics of a work of art are also its biggest fans.

[Nyoibo]

Don't forget that one of the Creavy kids was actually put back into the boat by the giant squid when he fell into the lake, I'm also pretty sure there's a scene in at least one of the books where people are swimming in the lake at one point at the end of the year I think.

[gremcint]

I think I might be wrong about the lake part, but everything else. The thing is even if Hagrid was exonerated he was still woefully underqualified to be a teacher. The only teacher less qualified than what's her name in divinations.

[Kheldarson]

I think I might be wrong about the lake part, but everything else. The thing is even if Hagrid was exonerated he was still woefully underqualified to be a teacher. The only teacher less qualified than what's her name in divinations.

No more unqualified then some college professors. He's got the knowledge and background for his position; he just sucks massively at actual teaching.

[s_stabeler]

actually, is Hagrid really a bad teacher? yes, he probably should have chosen less dangerous creatures for the students to learn about, but the students that actually paid attention seemed to do pretty well- i don't see, for example, Harry, Ron or Hermione having any issues with Hippogriffs after their lesson, and Harry was able to figure out how to defeat a Screwt within seconds on coming on it by surprise in the maze.

about wizards and Muggle wars: the way I see it, wizards are subjects of the Queen, but NOT of the Muggle government. In the event of war, wizards would help out if the country was actually invaded, but would stick to countering another country's wizards in the event of the invasion of another country. Also, we don't know how closely aligned Hitler and Grindelwald were- for all we know, there may well have been a magical theater in WW2 in the HP world. Juts because they were not being obvious about their assistance doesn't mean they weren't helping.

[evilfarmer]

On the subject of Math and normal Core classes. Would you want to read a book about a 10 year old struggling with Trig 2 or about Potions and Transfiguration?

In the 3rd book when Hermione gets her time turner she says that it took all summer to convince the MOM to let her use it and its so that she can take Muggle Studies and a very advanced math class on top of her normal classes. So the classes are offered if you want to take them.

On the dangerous creatures and teachers...fridge logic made me rethink how I felt about it because there are creatures that you wouldn't expect kids to be exposed to. Originally I thought How can do they do this!!! but now that I rethink it there are safeguards in place to keep both safe. The squid in the lake was juggling students for fun at the end of exams in the first book when Harry realizes Voldemort's plot. The GOF wasn't supposed to take anyone's name under age to mitigate risk. Now on that note Dumbledore did a stupid in allowing Harry to compete. Also as someone pointed out Harry and his friends did not have a normal experiance at Hogwarts.