Miracle or coincidence?

[IDrinkaRum]

Young man is injured while pole vaulting; family and friends pray to priest who died in 1951 to help heal the young man; much to doctors' surprise, boy does recover.

According to the doctors, the young man's head injury was serious. His skull was cracked from side to side. Either the surgery to remove part of the skull bone or infection would kill him. Scant weeks later, he's walking out of the hospital. Family and friends prayed to Father Emil Kapaun. He was a local priest over 50 years who died in 1951.

This may be the "needed" to have Father Kapaun vaulted to sainthood. For the record, there are currently only 2 Americans who have been sainted.

Is this truly a miracle or just medical coincidence?

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Medical coincidence.

Scientific studies have shown us that the divine has had no statistical effect of any consequence. Anomalies are merely the result of the law of large numbers, I.E. chance among the masses, nothing more.

[lordlundar]

I'm going to go on another approach here and say "power of positive thought". The body can do amazing things if the mind will let it.

[Flyndaran]

It's been proven that some individuals have an uncunny ability to survive and heal injuries that would certainly kill the vast majority of other people.
Last I heard they were doing genetic studies to ascertain how common this refusal is to "circle the drain" as doctors call it.

A miracle requires something to be impossible, not simply unlikely.

Otherwise I can call my lack of injury from a two story fall as a child a miracle.. rather than the accidental attempted homicide from my brother leaning on me at the window.
Horrifyingly enough my mother was looking out the living room window just in time to see me falling past.

[IDrinkaRum]

As a Catholic, I was raised to believe in miracles.

Also, the Catholic church doesn't just proclaim a miracle to be a miracle on a whim. They (supposedly) investigate it thoroughly. That's why there isn't a miracle being announced every day of the week, and there aren't Saints being declared every month or so.

Even the young man's doctors are saying his recovery is "miraculous".

I would like to believe in miracles. It's stories like this that inspire to believe that maybe there is a miracle or two still waiting to happen in this world.

[Flyndaran]

The catholic church has a saint for hemorrhoids.
They fought Galileo for centuries.
I don't take stock in anything they recognize.
Simply put, something would have to be proven impossible for it to be considered a miracle. Good luck is not miraculous.
Doctors often say things that aren't scientifically valid. They're human beings.

[BroomJockey]

Also, the Catholic church doesn't just proclaim a miracle to be a miracle on a whim. They (supposedly) investigate it thoroughly. That's why there isn't a miracle being announced every day of the week,

As noted in an episode of House, the Catholic Church only acknowledges a small number of miracles each year, but they do acknowledge a few. Because they're in the business of miracles. They kind of require them. Now, if you had a few scientists in there, with no affiliation, declaring it a miracle and not just some good healing and lucky with how the injury manifests, that'd be a bit more convincing.

[Slytovhand]

Yes, I'd more say 'coincidence' or some such similar... there's a few different possibilities.

I would also like to point out, 'miracles' of this nature (ha! pun! ) happen to people of all religious bents... would they be considered 'miracles' as well?? Or is it only if you follow that one faith? And the rest are...??? Luck? The Devil?? or what?

[Flyndaran]

Healing fast and well isn't a coincidence. Coincidences require two or more events to occur. This was just one really good one.

[BroomJockey]

Healing fast and well isn't a coincidence. Coincidences require two or more events to occur. This was just one really good one.

Well, the "coincidence" part is people prayed, person healed. There's your two actions. The question is, did the prayer cause the healing (miracle), or did the two have no causal connection (coincidence)?

Bet I can guess your answer, though.

[Flyndaran]

Well, the "coincidence" part is people prayed, person healed. ...

People pray all the time. It's a non-issue.
That just leaves the single issue of healing well and fast.

[BroomJockey]

People pray all the time. It's a non-issue.

Actually, it's at the heart of this issue, since they prayed to a specific (non-sainted) person, and one of the actions to become a saint is to have a miracle ascribed to you post-mortem. People do pray all the time, but in this case, it was "not standard" prayer, which is being termed different. We need to engage on the definitions provided by the argument. Thus, does this "different" form of prayer enable it to qualify as a miracle.

Since most atheists support the idea of prayer in its totality being ineffective, the fact that it's different doesn't really change the content of the argument, but nevertheless, that is the argument at hand.

[Flyndaran]

Prayer has been repeatedly proven to be completely ineffective. That makes it a non-issue. Next... he healed well and fast. That's not sun halting in the sky miracle. It's simply lucky / good genes.

[AdminAssistant]

Well, if the family and those of that faith believe that praying to that priest saved the guy's life, more power to them. Doesn't really bother me one way or the other.

[BroomJockey]

Prayer has been repeatedly proven to be completely ineffective. That makes it a non-issue.

See, this is where we're getting hung up. You're automatically calling it a non-issue, when they're claiming that is was effective in this instance. You're completely fine to take your stance like that, but technically, non-issues factor in to coincidence, too. I took a different route to work today, and I didn't get rained on. The fact that it wasn't raining makes the route I took a non-issue, doesn't mean it's still not a coincidence.