2012

[bunnyboy]

Something may happen in 2012, but I doubt it will be the Armageddon.

I believe Penn put it best, I predict that in the next year something bad will happen.

Prophecies that are general almost never turn out to be true... well unless you look at it from AFTER the event.

[Hyena Dandy]

The rest is semantics. 600 years ago, we didn't know how big the world was or whether or not it was round. How big was their "world"? Something may happen in 2012, but I doubt it will be the Armageddon.

CH

Not to nitpick... But yeah, we did. We knew that in Greek times.

But I see your points.

And the problem with using an ancient Central American calendar to predict the end of the world is that the books went BAMF.

I don't know how the AZTECS did it, but when they Maya made a prediction, they didn't mess around with "Within a week or two"

If the Maya HAD said the world would end (as opposed to saying they'd have to go to the store and get new calendars) and the world ended the next day, that would not count as the Maya being right. That would be a coincidence. For your description to be right, the Aztec would have had to predict the end of the world being a couple days later than we thought they prediced.

And another thing, doomsdays aren't things you can muck around with. This isn't Evan Almighty where you can get away with predicting a disaster of some sort will happen and its the end of the world. The end of the world isn't just "The end of the known world" its the END OF THE WORLD

There's some mighty fishy translating if you expect me to believe the Aztec said the world would end on December 24, and by that they meant that there would be a big disaster for something about the size of the Aztec empire, but very far away, and it wouldn't really be the DESTRUCTION of it, but it would make things REALLY SUCK.

Now, I don't speak Nahuatl, but I do speak a few other meso-American languages, and I do not know of ANY where you would have that much ambiguity in your description.





Also, if the Aztec were right the Maya would probably be wrong. Building a pyramid doesn't make you experts on the future. The Maya and the Aztec were very different, religiously, culturally, etc. Even assuming that an Aztec prophecy WAS fulfilled, saying this means the Maya will have THEIRS fulfilled is like saying that because the Oracle at Delphi got something right, we should follow prophecies of the Greek Orthodox church. I mean... They're both in pretty much the same place...

Saying the Aztec were right about the end of the world (which they seem not to have been, but I'll go with your Indonesian Earthquake=End of the World theory) should mean the Maya were WRONG.








And yes, that post WAS a lot more aggressive than you would expect knowing me, but I REALLY hate people equating the Maya to the Aztecs.

[BroomJockey]

There's some mighty fishy translating if you expect me to believe the Aztec said the world would end on December 24, and by that they meant that there would be a big disaster for something about the size of the Aztec empire, but very far away, and it wouldn't really be the DESTRUCTION of it, but it would make things REALLY SUCK.

Okay, here's a nitpick back then. "End of the world" usually means to people "end of civilization," not "the planet explodes." This would give exactly the amount of leeway required for the big disaster to hit a region and radically change it. After all, for the people in that area, it would be the end of their civilization and way of life, the "end of their world." So even a global prediction wouldn't require a doomsday prophecy. What if there's simply a massive pulse from a star going supernova relatively close to us, and all electronics are wiped out. The end of the world as we know it.

So you can nitpick about Aztecs and Maya, and about "regional" and "global" disasters, but when it comes down to it, you're still just depending on people using the term "end of the world" your way, and not another.

[crashhelmet]

Not to nitpick... But yeah, we did. We knew that in Greek times.

Umm... Wasn't part of Columbus's journey to prove that the world was indeed round and not flat?

I don't know how the AZTECS did it, but when they Maya made a prediction, they didn't mess around with "Within a week or two"

If the Maya HAD said the world would end (as opposed to saying they'd have to go to the store and get new calendars) and the world ended the next day, that would not count as the Maya being right. That would be a coincidence. For your description to be right, the Aztec would have had to predict the end of the world being a couple days later than we thought they prediced.

I never said the Aztecs changed or guesstimated the day their world would end. I said the so called "experts" did. They may have been off in their calculations. hell, they can't even come to an exact day for the Mayan Calendar either. Some believe 12/21 and others believe 12/23. Even the Mayans themselves couldn't come to an agreement on how long the "Long Count" calendar was. Some believed 13 Baktuns, others 20.

And another thing, doomsdays aren't things you can muck around with. This isn't Evan Almighty where you can get away with predicting a disaster of some sort will happen and its the end of the world. The end of the world isn't just "The end of the known world" its the END OF THE WORLD

But as I pointed out in my original reply, we don't know how big their world was. All that we know is that their world had "ended" before.

There's some mighty fishy translating if you expect me to believe the Aztec said the world would end on December 24, and by that they meant that there would be a big disaster for something about the size of the Aztec empire, but very far away, and it wouldn't really be the DESTRUCTION of it, but it would make things REALLY SUCK.

Now, I don't speak Nahuatl, but I do speak a few other meso-American languages, and I do not know of ANY where you would have that much ambiguity in your description.

The date was calculated by "experts" in the same fashion that the end of the Long Count has been calculated.

To compare both the Aztecs and Mayans again, most of their tomes and archives were destroyed when they were each invaded by the Spaniards. We have no clue what information was included in what was destroyed. For the Aztecs, we have no idea when their calendar was first created and in what form it was in. It could've been in a much smaller, even written form before being recreated in 24 tons of sandstone for all we know. This calendar may have traveled with them from wherever it was that they migrated from or it may have been created after arriving in Tenochtitlan.

The prediction could've been made prior to them leaving or after they arrived. Maybe these "experts" are right now and there will be a devastating earthquake on December 24th, 2012. The point I brought up was one of coincidence based on speculation about the origination of the people, with the intentions of making people think about what we know and what we think we know. They don't know how far they emigrated from. some say South East Asia. Some say the Utah/Arizona border. There's even a movement that claims Chicomoztoc is in what is now known as Wisconsin. Others say they didn't travel far at all and came from northern Mexico. They may have traveled from the south for all we know.

Also, if the Aztec were right the Maya would probably be wrong. Building a pyramid doesn't make you experts on the future. The Maya and the Aztec were very different, religiously, culturally, etc. Even assuming that an Aztec prophecy WAS fulfilled, saying this means the Maya will have THEIRS fulfilled is like saying that because the Oracle at Delphi got something right, we should follow prophecies of the Greek Orthodox church. I mean... They're both in pretty much the same place...

Saying the Aztec were right about the end of the world (which they seem not to have been, but I'll go with your Indonesian Earthquake=End of the World theory) should mean the Maya were WRONG.

Once again, we don't know if they were right or if they were wrong. The Aztecs didn't change the Gregorian date their Calendar would complete its cycle. The "experts" did.

And yes, that post WAS a lot more aggressive than you would expect knowing me, but I REALLY hate people equating the Maya to the Aztecs.

They were a people, not separated by much, that very well could've been a part of the same civilization at one point. Legends say that there were seven Nahuatl tribes that originally left Chicomoztoc. One tribe was said to travel as far south as Nicaragua. They could've been the same people, with beliefs altered by politics and/or education.

CH

CH

[Boozy]

Umm... Wasn't part of Columbus's journey to prove that the world was indeed round and not flat?

Every educated person knew that the world was round by the time Columbus was born. The story that Columbus was out to prove it is just a myth.

[AdminAssistant]

Columbus was out to find a quicker path to China/India. And despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, he was convinced that he had found it. And yet we give this man his own holiday?

[BroomJockey]

Every educated person knew that the world was round by the time Columbus was born. The story that Columbus was out to prove it is just a myth.

What's more, the circumference of the world was measured to an astoundingly accurate degree by the Ancient Greeks using a stick and the sun.

And trigonometry, but still. A STICK!