has religion become about hate?

[smileyeagle1021]

Something that has been bothering me for a while now, but why does religion now seem to be about hating the right people? In christianity it's about hating the gays and the muslims and the atheists, in islam it's about hating the infidels, and on and on. It seems like every religion has chosen to define themselves by who they hate now. I can't speak to anything outside of Christianity, but my mother taught me that Christ was about love, love thy neighbor and love thy Lord, but in Mormonism I was taught that I was supposed to hate homosexuals as defying God's will and trying to destroy america and morality, I was taught that I should hate those who questioned the church, should hate those who are different. So did I just have bad luck with my spiritual leaders or is this really what religion has come to? And if it has come to this, when did it happen, and is there anyway to fix it?

[Amethyst Hunter]

Possibly both. Some religions are more prone to hostility than others (you don't see Buddhism-based terrorism, for example - not that it couldn't exist, granted, but it's not likely to), and religion has become the big thing to sell nowadays because we are a culture of cheap fixes and quick gratification - look at the loads of "spiritual-based" crap in stores, the latest "purpose-driven" fad, the "WWJD" jewelry, the biggest box-office moneymaker in all history (The Passion, which is, as South Park so aptly put it, little more than a snuff film, except that in this case the snuff is violence instead of sex), megachurches, and so on.

So it follows that those in power in said religions - who are almost always behind the money! - want to consolidate that power and in turbulent times the best way to do that is to give the people a tangible enemy that plays upon their deepest fears. "Satan" for most people is an abstract concept that doesn't really register in the conscious mind. But apply that concept to any of the following: gay people, feminists, dark-skinned people, non-Christian people, doctors that specialize in abortion, women who have abortions, liberals, and so on...and you have a face to put on the concept that galvanizes people.

(To use a blatant example, the most common reason I've seen cited by gay people as to their fear of coming out is not of how God would treat them, but how the people in their lives would react. That's one hell - no pun intended - of a powerful deterrent.)

This is in fact one of the big reasons I rejected any and all organized religion and have pretty much been a lifelong agnostic - I'm sick of the ignorant hatred I'm seeing and I don't want to be a part of any club that requires I hate (and possibly harass/harm) someone for these abovementioned factors, or other related factors not mentioned here. Even if the majority of religious members are generally decent folk and don't endorse such views, I still don't want to associate myself, however inadvertently, with the scumbags that make their living warping said religion for sick purposes. If I'm going to hate somebody, it's because they're an asshole, plain and simple.

(Another thing that bothers me about this is that the genuinely good religious people out there aren't standing up to the bullies that have hijacked their beliefs and using them to spread harmful memes. Yes, some of them have spoken out and condemned the actions of those abusing religion, but I'd like to see more of that translated into action.)

As far as what can be done about this, I'm not sure; it's become so pervasive anymore and I often worry that the bullies are winning. Only if EVERYbody - secular and religious alike - stands up to them do we have a chance at restoring religions to what they were intended to be: a means to communicate with our maker, connect with other human beings and find our own paths in life.

Edit to add: As to when it happened, who knows - hate has been a component of religions ever since time began. But in this country, at least, it didn't become the *dominant* feature until fairly recently; much of the shit we're seeing now can be traced back to the early 1980s when dominionism really got off the ground (though from reports I've read, dominionism has been seeded as far back as the early 1900s!) and Reagan fueled the fire by pandering to some of this denomination. The economic boom and social issues-controversies of the 1990s helped power it, and by the 2000s it had mushroomed into a very serious threat (no thanks to certain scumbags whom I shall not bother to name here) that remains dangerous to this day. Part of the reason the hatebags have become so vocal and emboldened is due to the vast cultural changes and shifts in beliefs - such people find non-black-and-white thinking personally threatening, and they want to control society so strictly because they need it to control *them*. (Which is pretty disturbing if you think about things related to sex and violence, two areas that tend to garner the bulk of hostilities from the haters.)

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Why stop at religion? Just about everything has sprouted it's little sect of arbitrary hatred. Social groups, fandoms, political groups, everyone seems to migrate towards pointing the finger when the going get's 'rough'.

But it isn't even the finger pointing that's the problem, it's the arbitrary nature of said blaming. There are plenty of things out there very much at fault, but it seems most would rather spend time blaming whoever they'd like to get rid of than actually looking to solve the problem.

The whole situation is moronic. That's the best way to describe anyone who makes up their mind about something before they even know what it is. I guess it's just too much to ask for right now for people to actually know about the things they have opinions on.

I have opinions about gun control and media violence because I know about them. I don't have any opinion about fishing regulation because I don't know anything about fish. The only sensible options would be to either learn about fish so that I can form an opinion about what laws might help, or leave it up to people who do know fish.

That doesn't seem to happen anymore though, people don't admit that they don't know anything about people of Islamic faith, or liberal thought, and instead choose to paint them as the source of ultimate evil.

Hate is a great motivator. People will do crazy things because of hate, so it's no wonder that it's such a popular tool. The best thing we can do is motivate ourselves to take action in defiance of those who rely on scapegoating.

Hopefully understandable rant, over.

[Slytovhand]

Aaarghhhhh....

No no no and no!

Let's not tar 'religion' with the brush of the aresholes! (oooh... typo that works... Ares - God of War and hate!! well... bloodlust!)

Anyway.....

No.

Smiley, you've copped some bad crap in the names of a couple of religions.. let's not put them all into the same bag..(oooh - hang on, isn't that what some just suggested about tarring all Muslims the same way??)


Many religions are about peace, and not about hate. Some religions don't even care about the physical realms, so the point is completely irrelevant.

Buddhism has been mentioned... though,

you don't see Buddhism-based terrorism, for example - not that it couldn't exist, granted, but it's not likely to

is only because you haven't heard of it. Yes, it does exist... it's just that it's not directed towards any of us, but towards those who want to destroy their temples/statues...

Taoism.. again... "go inside" is a basic part of their philosophy.. not hate!

As for the beginnings of religion... no, not hate based... it was ignorance based. 'We don't know what's going on in the world around us, so maybe there's something up there that's directing all of this".... a way to explain the universe... Not hate based!

Sure, religion is a good hate based way of dealing with us... but the 2 do not equate.

To be blunt, Smiley, if that's what you're getting from your religion, change!


Wingate... yep, agree totally... too many people making loud opinions become a way of life... with absolutely no knowledge of what they're talking about. Even worse (when you think about it) is to condone an action or way to be based on the promulgation of that ignorance. It's one thing to hold an opinion based on ignorance - it's another to base a series of practice or attitude on it!

[BroomJockey]

*cough CRUSADES cough cough*

Religious-based hatred is nothing new.

Us vs. Them isn't new either. It all stems from the tribal societies of primitive man. Back then, when it was all stone tools and caves, it was all "Resources are limited, we must protect the village, those over there would do what they can to see us dead and take our resources for themselves, so we need to kill them first." And so they'd go and kill them first to ensure their own survival. Unfortunately, Us vs. Them remains hardwired in to our collective brains, so even today it remains an effective mind control technique which any group in the business of gaining power over people (organized religion, unstable governments, businesses looking for greater market share) exploits the fuck out of.

[guywithashovel]

I have done quite a bit of thinking about religion over the past several years, and this is one of the topics I've mulled over. To be perfectly honest, I don't think that, deep down, most religious people really HATE anyone. However, from being around more than a few people who were really religious, I have detected a sense of superiority within quite a few of them. Call it a God Complex if you want, but however you choose to label it, it's pretty obvious that they consider themselves superior to people who don't follow the path they follow.

In short, I don't think that most religious people---minus the extremists---really hate anyone who is gay, atheist, Wiccan, or anything else. But it's pretty obvious to me that many of them think they're vastly superior to such people. Though once again, I'm talking about the really devout ones, not the ones who don't see a need to wear their faith on their sleeve and liberally pepper their speech with scripture quotes and references to Jesus.

[PepperElf]

i know in some religions hatred is for pure evil and specific *acts* rather than people.

[bunnyboy]

Most religions aren't hate based, in fact the average religious person is less like Mr. Phelps and WBC, and more like a little Catholic monk in the 1200's who came from a small Italian town (for those who don't know I'm referring to St. Francis.)

As one Muslim leader of the day put it, if more Christians were like you, the world would be Christian.

But yeah I have to agree, it's the Phelps, and Robertsons and Bin Ladens, and their ilk who get the attention because they're not being quiet, meanwhile the (i'll just use the word here in a meaning I'll define after) Franciscans wont do anything until they have to go all Jesus with the money changers, righteous fury to get their faith back.

And by Franciscan I mean ANYONE who could be said to want St. Francis' prayer to be answerred.... google it, wonderful little piece, even my one athiest friend liked it, it's a wonderful little thing, actually made me go away from big giant churches towards small, multiple "ministry" churches, and ultimately something of a mysticism idea.

To paraphrase the 13th Apostle, ideas are flexible, beliefs are some of the worst things you can have.

BTW, Taoism as a religion is a bit different than Taoism as a philosophy.... kinda interesting how those eastern philosophy religions seem to have fewer dangerous extremists than our western belief religions, might be the whoole idea/belief thing has a point.

[Flyndaran]

Religion evolved to force an "us" mentality. The fact that that usually creates a "them" is simply human nature. Any innate unionizing force will create thems to hate. Geek vs. jocks for example.
I try really hard to see religion as a null sum game rather than simply a genetic delusion. But when loudmouths like Pat Robertson continues to get huge funds from his TV hate show, it gets a bit more difficult.

[Rapscallion]

Religion evolved to force an "us" mentality. The fact that that usually creates a "them" is simply human nature. Any innate unionizing force will create thems to hate. Geek vs. jocks for example.
I try really hard to see religion as a null sum game rather than simply a genetic delusion. But when loudmouths like Pat Robertson continues to get huge funds from his TV hate show, it gets a bit more difficult.

I would rather suggest that religion - as a tool for control - uses the tribal mentality common in humans.

Rapscallion

[Flyndaran]

I would rather suggest that religion - as a tool for control - uses the tribal mentality common in humans.

Rapscallion

With religion being as nigh universal as it is, it must be needed on a more direct basis than simply hijacking another urge, at least in my opinion.
Look at how children instinctively try to explain the universe in magical usually animistic ways even after being told the mundane truths.
I see this whole oddity from the further outside possible. I never once believed in the supernatural even as a small child.

[Flyndaran]

I would rather suggest that religion - as a tool for control - uses the tribal mentality common in humans.

Rapscallion

I thought I responded already, weird. My mistake.

I think in some ways religion is more a base human nature than a tool. But that's just semantic quibbling.

I do long for a time when my people are the majority, and religion is relegated to ancient history.
I don't think many things would change. Religion is used as an excuse to do what people were already going to do anyway.

[protege]

Religion, by itself isn't the problem. Rather, it has been perverted for various groups to "justify" their actions. How many terrorists have blown up planes or flown them into buildings...and claimed that they did it for Allah? Or, what about the Crusaders who went into Jerusalem because it was "God's Will?" In both cases, religion provided those fools with a convenient excuse to not only cover their actions, but possibly get new members as well.

I agree that many Western religious groups have a very small, but very vocal (and annoying) minority. Everyone knows these people are nuts, yet nobody chooses to do anything--they're hoping that those nuts simply go away. That's not what usually happens though. These nuts *crave* the attention and will do anything to get it. Unfortunate, but true.

[Slytovhand]

So... what do you propose to do with the 'nuts'? That's the real problem!

Flyn - you did.... and then came back 9 hours later... maybe you went to a first post you hadn't read? I've done that!

[Tanasi]

I was taught to love the sinner and hate the sin. Just because you can do something sinful doesn't mean you have to commit the sin afterall most sins are committed for convienence sake or pleasure.
IMO it's not a sin to drink alcholic beverages but it is a sin to become intoxicated. It's not a sin to be homosexual, but committing homosexual acts is sinful afterall the Lord smote a whole bunch of folks for that very thing. Now before you start trashing me regarding homosexuals I personally have nothing against you all, what you are doing is between you and the Lord and it's not my business and I don't want to know your business.

I try real hard to live by the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
To answer the question in some instanances some folks do twist their religion and use it as a weapon of hate, but I think those that do are in the minority at least amoungst the folks I associate with.