Religions who condem unborn children to Hell

[MaggieTheCat]

I don't know much about any religion. I don't know if this belief is the general belief for most/all Lutherans. My grandfather prides himself in being a very staunch Lutheran. One of his beliefs is that anyone who is not baptized will go straight to hell when they die. This includes babies who die in the womb, babies who are born stillborn, or babies who are born alive and die very shortly afterword without time to be baptized.

My mom and I got into a discussion about my grandfather and grandmother (my dad's parents.) My mom is convinced that my grandmother is the "worst" of the two for a lot of reasons. She is mean and nasty, she will purposely go out of her way to do things to annoy/anger my grandfather, she will try to prevent my grandfather from doing things that she doesn't approve of, she is never happy no matter what is given to or done for her. She is a miserable person. However, I countered that all of that does not compare to the fact that my grandfather can so faithfully believe that an unborn child is going to hell for all eternity simply because it was not baptized. To me, that kind of thinking is absolutely sickening. I don't care what your religion says.

My mom argued that if I thought my grandfather was bad because of that, then I thought all Lutherans were bad, because my grandfather's beliefs are religious based and all Lutherans have that same belief. I'm not sure if she was admitting that she believes it, too, because she is, or at least used to be, Lutheran herself.

Anyway, I'm curious what others think. Are there any Lutherans on the board? If so, is this really a common belief among Lutherans? And if it is, can someone please explain to me how people, or any God, can justify sending an unborn child to hell because they weren't baptized? Like I said, I do not know much about any religion. What I know about Lutheran, including everything I said here, I got from my family and their... "version" of Lutheran beliefs. I have learned to only believe about a fourth of what comes out of any of my family members' mouths, because most of it is exaggerated, skewed, or outright lies. I've never been to church (well, I think I was a couple of times when I was really young, but I don't remember it) and I've only read a few things out of the Bible, again, most of which I don't remember.

[Nyoibo]

I think it depends on wether there is a beliefe that the children suffer the sins of the parents.

[joe hx]

I'm Lutheran, and we don't believe that, so your grandpa must be very old-school Lutheran.
Unlike Catholics, their is no world-unified Lutheran church. In the United States, there are two main types of Lutherans: ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America) and the Missouri Synod. There are also a few Lutheran churches that stand on their own.

ELCA would be the "Liberal" Lutherans in that they don't believe in error-free Bible, allow and have women pastors, and allow (but don't have) openly gay pastors.
The Missouri Synod is the "conservative" Lutherans. They don't have women pastors.

I belong to a church that is an ELCA branch. Individuals are allowed to deviate from said official beliefs (hence the compromise between allowing gay pastors and actually having said pastors). ELCA also evangelizes not by going door-to-door, but rather by good works alone.

I know official Catholic belief used to be that the unbaptized infants went to Hell, but I think they go to purgatory now.

[BroomJockey]

I know official Catholic belief used to be that the unbaptized infants went to Hell, but I think they go to purgatory now.

No, they went to purgatory, which doesn't exist anymore, so they go to Heaven. But it's only infants.

[BlaqueKatt]

No, they went to purgatory, which doesn't exist anymore, so they go to Heaven. But it's only infants.

Actually it was termed "limbo" they had not done anything bad enough to warrant purgatory.

There is a difference

Limbo-The Limbo of Infants* is a hypothesis about the permanent status of the unbaptized who die in infancy, too young to have committed personal sins, but not having been freed from original sin. Some who hold this theory regard the Limbo of Infants as a state of maximum natural happiness, others as one of "mildest punishment" consisting at least of privation of the beatific vision and of any hope of obtaining it.

Purgatory-Purgatory is the condition or process of purification in which the souls of those who die in a state of grace are made ready for Heaven. According to Catholic doctrine, some souls are not sufficiently free from sin and its consequences to enter the state of heaven immediately, nor are they so sinful as to be destined for hell either. Such souls, ultimately destined to be united with God in heaven, must first endure purgatory—a state of purification.


*there is a second limbo-the limbo of the fathers-which is seen as the temporary state of those who, in spite of the personal sins they may have committed, died in the friendship of God, but could not enter Heaven until redemption by Jesus Christ made it possible.

[BroomJockey]

Actually it was termed "limbo" they had not done anything bad enough to warrant purgatory.

There is a difference

Hey, my new thing learned today.

[Lady_Foxfire]

Another Lutheran here; I don't know what my church's stance on it is, but I personally believe that unborn/very small children who die before they get a chance to choose or reject God are either sent to Heaven or sent to a not-Heaven-but-not-fire-and-brimstone afterlife (maybe limbo), because they never had the mental or spiritual capacity to understand God and make an informed decision about their faith or lack thereof.

[BlaqueKatt]

Hey, my new thing learned today.

Sorry I was raised very strict* Roman Catholic.......

*so strict I actually have four names(saints' names given upon baptism and confirmation which legally are part of my name if I so choose to use them for some odd reason) not including my hyphenated last name(s). you actually have to stop for breath when reciting my full name.........

[crashhelmet]

There have been many answers given to questions surrounding what happens to a baby if it dies before it could sin.

It used to be believed that if a baby was born stilborn it was because it never had a soul and therefor couldn't go to heaven or hell. Of course this changed a little bit over time and even more with the abortion debate. Babies that died shortly after birth and while still "innocent" would go into Limbo and await Judgement Day. Some believed they'd go back into the Guff and await another chance at life. Baptized babies would be allowed entrance into Heaven.

I don't remember the verse off-hand, but there is a verse that says something along the lines of God will not punish those that aren't aware of their sins. This would include young children/babies and the mentally handicapped. I wanna say it's in the New Testament (Acts maybe?), but couldn't say for sure.

I think it all really comes down to telling them what they want to hear.

CH

[Flyndaran]

What about someone like me? I never once, even for a moment, believed in a god or afterlife. I never accepted or rejected god. The idea itself is incompatible with my brain structure.
Would I be surrounded by babies when I die?

[crashhelmet]

Are you saying that you now believe in an afterlife? Does the fear of spending eternity surrounded by babies make you want to accept a religious faith?

From a Christian standpoint, you would go to Hell as you are aware of the "pre-requisites" required for entrance into Heaven. Their thought process would be that you have been told and chose not to believe. That alone is rejection in their eyes. Christians also believe that God is forgiving. Simply asking for forgiveness is enough to grant you access to Heaven.

As far as I know, the Jewish faith doesn't believe in Hell. So if they're right and Christians are wrong, you've got nothing to worry about You just go somewhere. Maybe even reincarnated? It's been a while since I dated a Jewish girl, so I don't remember if i ever knew.

I don't enough about the other religions of the world to be able to answer the question.

CH

[Flyndaran]

Are you saying that you now believe in an afterlife? Does the fear of spending eternity surrounded by babies make you want to accept a religious faith?

From a Christian standpoint, you would go to Hell as you are aware of the "pre-requisites" required for entrance into Heaven. Their thought process would be that you have been told and chose not to believe. That alone is rejection in their eyes. Christians also believe that God is forgiving. Simply asking for forgiveness is enough to grant you access to Heaven.
...

CH

But if the previous pope acknowledged the possibility of a god module in the brain dedicated to religious experiences and understanding, then shouldn't the present one admit that someone may be born without one and therefore is completely incapable of religion? If I'm truly incapable of it. then wouldn't punishing me for it be wrong?

[crashhelmet]

But if the previous pope acknowledged the possibility of a god module in the brain dedicated to religious experiences and understanding, then shouldn't the present one admit that someone may be born without one and therefore is completely incapable of religion? If I'm truly incapable of it. then wouldn't punishing me for it be wrong?

That would get into the definition of possibility and to what extent it functions. If it's proven that you won't "get" religion without it, then yeah, you'd be safe. But if it's something that grants some sort of spiritual gift, like the ability to see the dead or angels or sumthin, than I would think no. But alas, that decision is to be made by a higher being than me.

CH