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Problems with Newapagiccans from a heathen.

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  • Problems with Newapagiccans from a heathen.

    Well I was reminded of something from a few years ago when I first went towards Heathenry (basically Germanic reconstructionist paganism.) Was looking to have a Hammer of Thor (kinda the defacto symbol of heathenry since the other two the vaulknot and the fyfolt cross (swastika) have natsy associations.)

    A little background here, Seattle has three occult/new age shops, one of which is pretty much purely occult (uhm we'll call it rim of the circle, or rim for short) another that's more along the lines of new-age ecological buddha-wicca occultism (which I'll call terra-elements), and one that's basically your go to place for oils, inscence (whole and stick), and associated things (which will be menzig toto.)

    Ok looking for a Hammer of Thor.... first thought was hey I'm by pike's place, and I know Menzig wont have it, so I'll try terra-elements, they seem to be an ok place.

    boy was I wrong... asked if they had any (since the jewelry was kept behind the counter and got a lovely skreed about how I was what was wrong with the earth religions movement (well I know I wasn't but she was meaning heathen not me so I let that part slide), and why couldn't I learn to like something that was older like Wicca, and I forget what else, because I was on my way out the door.

    so next stop was Rim which is run by some pretty cool people, ones who actually seem to be interested (one's a member of the local AMORC chapter as well as the leader of one of the local non-fluffy covens) so the reaction I get when perusing the norse/runes/heathen section, not a batted lash, not a single snide comment, just a general can I help you find anything, found both the hammer and a couple of books I've pretty much destroyed through constant reading, re-reading and use over 2 years)

    so what's the real rant here... I dunno, guess it's just my distaste for the newapaggicans (new age pagan wiccans, sorta another way of saying fluffy bunny) especially, as well as the oh so great aryan warriors who tend to tarnish a good thing that gives me moral support (Asatru) with their bs (nazism) which is why I have to get "lectures" from fluffy types like the terra-elements lady.


    oh yeah there's other reasons why I hate this new breed of wicca (the post-ravenwolf kind where fluff seems to abound) but the general intolerance for those of us who are reconstructionists (Asatru, Hellenismos, Religio Romuva, etc) because obviously we're doing it because we're racists who hate anything that isnt Norse/Greek/Roman or because we tend to be a bit more scientific in our studies of religion (we are trying to RECONSTRUCT the old ways as best we can) rather than pick up a book with OOOH PRETTY COVER and skim is probably the biggest of the lot of why it's bugged me enough to run on and ramble.

    The other parts would be tales for another time.

  • #2
    I've pretty much accepted that I'll always be agnostic because I can't find peace with any religion. I know that you find annoying fluffbunny zealots under any umbrella, including Paganism, but I just don't have the patience.

    I live in Redmond. I am hoping to find people in the Seattle area who can point me in the right direction without being condescending.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by bunnyboy View Post
      and why couldn't I learn to like something that was older like Wicca
      Um... WHA?

      What pisses me off about new agey fluffy is people who don't know a single thing about the background of what they claim to follow.
      I am a sexy shoeless god of war!
      Minus the sexy and I'm wearing shoes.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Nyoibo View Post
        What pisses me off about new agey fluffy is people who don't know a single thing about the background of what they claim to follow.
        oh sweet merciful hamsters* yes!

        Sadly most of the ones I've run into...did it to be "non-conformists"-sadly they don't have the sense to realize-guess what they're still conforming!!!!!



        *hamsters can be surprisingly merciful.......

        Originally posted by SorryIsGoodEnough View Post
        I've pretty much accepted that I'll always be agnostic because I can't find peace with any religion. I know that you find annoying fluffbunny zealots under any umbrella, including Paganism, but I just don't have the patience.
        the best I can suggest is the UAA-or Unitarian Universalist Association-their principles can be found here

        And you have one in seattle


        Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion that draws wisdom and inspiration from many sources. Unitarian Universalists include people who identify as Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans, Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists, and with other religious or philosophical traditions.

        Atheists (people who do not believe in a god) and Agnostics (people who think that we cannot know whether a god exists) are more than welcome within Unitarian Universalism. Unitarian Universalism is unusual in its belief that a person can be very religious, spiritual, moral, etc. without believing in a god. There is no requirement to believe in a god of any sort within our faith. At last count, 19% of Unitarian Universalists said that they did not believe in any type of god.
        Last edited by BlaqueKatt; 09-05-2009, 11:47 PM.
        Registered rider scenic shore 150 charity ride

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        • #5
          why couldn't I learn to like something that was older like Wicca
          Good lord I hate this! I'm a Kemetic recon (Egyptian) myself, and though I've never really had anyone be that particularly rude to me though. I've had arguments with people online about what they think is the "correct" version of the Ancient Egyptian religion. If you do any research at all you'd see that the Ancient Kemetics weren't hard polytheists, a lot of arguments centre around that idea.

          Also, the amount of teenyboppers on messageboards trying to be all "occult" and "Magickal" is insane. Especially when they're just posting to ask about love spells and the like.

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          • #6
            Ok, I've had 2 good laughs so far...

            First, the same one that others have - the 'something older, like Wicca'. hahahaha.... (I really hope they didn't say 'wicca', and just said 'mother earth worshippers').

            And now, 'love spells and the like'... oh yeah!!!!

            I got in 'trouble' once, cos I did a reading. I was asked about the whole humdrum 'love' thing. The cards didn't give any indications of that, but wanted to bring up something else. Funny how that suddenly translated to 'you're going to be alone for the rest of your life'... <sigh>

            'fluffy bunnies' don't really practice what they preach! They tend to be fairly intolerant of anything that's not their own, and want to convert, because they know the truth (which is why they've gone all fluffy bunny-ish).

            I'm really surprised that you had a hassle finding something so simple as a Thor's Hammer!!! (or the knots/cross... they're all over the place over here!)
            ZOE: Preacher, don't the Bible got some pretty specific things to say about killing?

            SHEPHERD BOOK: Quite specific. It is, however, Somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by muses_nightmare View Post
              Also, the amount of teenyboppers on messageboards trying to be all "occult" and "Magickal" is insane. Especially when they're just posting to ask about love spells and the like.
              I remember something like this. I was about that age when I considered Wicca to be more or less interesting, but even I knew that love spells weren't meant to draw the guy you wanted towards you. They were more or less designed to help bring love into your life, but no specific guy.

              As for those who call themselves Newapagiccans....o.O

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              • #8
                Originally posted by fireheart17 View Post
                As for those who call themselves Newapagiccans....o.O

                None that I know of, it's a term I coined due to running into these people amongst my friends (great people, but their spirituality is kinda... wonky at best, IMO)

                Originally posted by muses_nightmare View Post
                Good lord I hate this! I'm a Kemetic recon (Egyptian) myself, and though I've never really had anyone be that particularly rude to me though.
                Ah cool another Recon, I actually enjoy talking with other reconstructionists, and even Big Three (Gardenarian, Alexandrian, and I forget the one buckland was in) Wicca trads since they seem to be grounded, and don't go off on flights of fantasy during a debate or discussion.

                Originally posted by muses_nightmare View Post
                I've had arguments with people online about what they think is the "correct" version of the Ancient Egyptian religion.
                Not just Kemetics, most Recon movements seem to have this... just look at Folkish vs Universalist vs Racialist Heathenry... it's insane.

                Originally posted by Slytovhand View Post
                (I really hope they didn't say 'wicca', and just said 'mother earth worshippers').
                I really wish that was true... by Mjollnir I do, but no it was Wicca.

                Originally posted by Slytovhand View Post
                I'm really surprised that you had a hassle finding something so simple as a Thor's Hammer!!! (or the knots/cross... they're all over the place over here!)
                Kinda hard to find around here, the fyfolt is (as I pointed out) considered a bad symbol thanks to an Austrian and his Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei in 1932-1945 Germany, and the Valknut while nice really isn't my thing (I follow Thor more than the One-eyed One). And yeah there used to be a few places that had Hammers, but once Wicca became the big thing, it was pentacle this, five pointed star that... you get the idea.

                actually I was reminded of something from a while back, about some essays, that kinda explained why us recons tend to dislike most non-big three Wiccans... one was "The Hammer and the Pentacle" (IIRC) the other was a Hellinismos follower who had a discussion with a Wiccan. Always thought it was funny by how the Wiccan got squicked by even the THOUGHT of sacrifice (in this case saving and burning a portion of their food to the gods.)

                Yeah there's quite a bit more,,, had one ask if during a mock battle I would ever throw a mock spear over the other group (a way to dedicate the battle dead to Odhin)...

                lets just say I said no, since I didn't want there to be any real death in that case... he seems to like turing fake sacrifices and dedications into real ones...
                Last edited by bunnyboy; 09-06-2009, 04:11 PM.

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                • #9
                  And now for a little background of why the whole newapagiccan thing bugs me... though to be honest it's why I went towards it in the First place.

                  We'll start off in high school, had a few friends who we pagan, of an eclectic sort, one was a pretty stable solitary Wiccan (one of the rare few who weren't fluffy) the others were people looking for something spiritual, then where was Jeff.... Jeff was my first encounter with newapagiccanism... and out of all he was probably the one that actually made sense, he might have been so ecclectic it made my head hurt at points, but his theology and cosmology was at least consistent and not new agey (he actually recognized that there were two sides to divinity, tried to stay as close as he could to his own concepts without changing it too much and recognizing that it wasn't THAT old.) All those good points however were brought down by one point, he did have a bit too much dark focus, but meh, he was generally a good guy and if given the chance to actually read good books on the subject wouldn't have been as eclectic.

                  Then came Lexus... of all the ones I've run into, he's the worst.... to get his eclecticism, imagin what would happen if you combined pop-shaminsm with pop Native Americanism with Werewolf the Apocalypse, with crap some of us who had experience in the occult threw his way to send him off onto fools errands, with something new he found interesting... ok so this was mostly my fault...I tossed a load out there, and never told him it was fake... I seem to like his spirituality better when I go do my V:TM LARP on Saturdays... only have to deal with playing one character and it's relaxing. He attracted so many people around him that were just like him, one of which was pretty much an Otaku-kin....*shudders* wasn't Jenny Nova, but damn she was close.

                  and finally the straw that broke this camel's back.... Janae.... dear lord, it wasn't bad enough that she was a not there roomy (was at the place I was living for a week or two out of the month total) but no, she was like Jeff in the being consistent (in word at least) but like Lexus she would change if anything could disprove her... for example, she was one of the 2012 is the END OF THE WORLD... until I looked it up and pointed out that no place actually has that... so she started appending it with... as we know it, once you got down to it she was really more like lexus with better conceptual and speaking abilities... considering she had to get the few people she wanted to teach her ways high to teach them, doesn't surprise me... also like Lexus I tossed in fake crap... having started going back to Heathenry slightly before she moved in... at least it did some good, other guy roomy took her less seriously and wanted to learn something that was at least based consistently and ordered... turned him towards wicca and I dunno if he's looked back.


                  oh almost forgot, there was a common theme here, I couldn't get away from these people... and each just got worse, I still find it funny that someone I knew in High School who was 17 at the time, and was pretty much brand-spanking new to earth based/pagan religions had more forethought and better conceptions than half the newapagiccans I've met, these are just the big three, there's a few I've had the displeasure to meet that make these three look positivly sane in some of their beliefs (Jeff was partial to focusing on a dark/light battle being waged by us humans on the Astral Plane [not too bad, but still wonky-ish], Lexus [according to himself] IS both Coyote and the son of Coyote, and Janae is so old in spirit she saw the universe being created... and was various deities in previous lives [damn shoulda asked what she whispered in Baldr's ear.], could read people so well that she knew I was Prometius in a past life [never got an explanation on how an Immortal could die before the respective end time] and was oh so worried about someone casting dark magic on us [who just turned out to be someone trying to find his friend's window] and who had to resort to Hashashin training tactics to make her crap sensible Yeah I'd say she was probably what cemented me in Heathenry, we may have our disagreements, but at least we agree on the nine worlds, and some of the same values, and they don't change with every new age crack-pot theory.... mostly.
                  Last edited by bunnyboy; 09-06-2009, 04:52 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bunnyboy View Post
                    one of which was pretty much an Otaku-kin....*shudders* wasn't Jenny Nova, but damn she was close.
                    *headdesk* We need a smilie for that.

                    Who is Jenny Nova though?
                    I am a sexy shoeless god of war!
                    Minus the sexy and I'm wearing shoes.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nyoibo View Post
                      *headdesk* We need a smilie for that.

                      Who is Jenny Nova though?
                      Google her and don't go to the ED page... she's basically someone who believes she's JENOVA from FFVII (and a few other things from before that obsession if some people are telling the truth) basically someone who will come into a roomy situation, try and take over the house so she can get a cult of FFVII otaku-kin going.... better yet a first hand experience with her.

                      From what I understand from the Otakukin I met's ex she pretty much did this repeatedly with any game she liked... I met her when she was Riku.

                      and yes we do need one for headdesk, would help me and Smiley for all the pains in faith we go through.

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                      • #12
                        Is it wrong that in reading this thread This popped into my mind?

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                        • #13
                          I was thinking about the ones where Davan goes to Salem, but that's an awesome one too.
                          I am a sexy shoeless god of war!
                          Minus the sexy and I'm wearing shoes.

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                          • #14
                            Not just Kemetics, most Recon movements seem to have this... just look at Folkish vs Universalist vs Racialist Heathenry... it's insane
                            It really is, seems like no matter what you're doing it's not the "right" way for someone or another, and most of the time (okay, the majority) they're talking out of their ass. For some reason a lot of these fluffys think that they can read one paragraph from a New age book and know exactly what you should be doing in your religion. *headdesk* It's why I've left a few messageboards in the past. I just got fed up.

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                            • #15
                              I consider myself pretty new age, because what I believe is a synthesis of various standard and new-age religions. My beliefs have a lot of contradiction, but simultaneously one of the things I believe is that the truth is, if not unknowable, entirely irrational, and can be multiple things at the same time. Since what I believe now didn't exist before, it must be new-age.

                              But I know what you mean about the fluffybunny types. For the most part they don't even know what they claim to believe. A lot of the publications for the friends I have who believe those things basically come up with new things to believe every week.

                              I believe every human being has the capacity to understand the truth, but they need to discover it on their own.
                              "Nam castum esse decet pium poetam
                              ipsum, versiculos nihil necessest"

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