Female ministers/pastors

[blas87]

A thread on CS.com and a suggestion from Ree inspired me to start this type of thread here.

My mother recently finished school to be a minister. She is not the church's pastor, but she can substiute, or if we moved, she could qualify as a pastor elsewhere. Maybe if ours quit, she could?

Well anyways, this reminded me of my ex roomate (as with most things in this world that piss me off remind me of him).

Way back when we first became friends, he said he was Catholic and he immediately dug into my religion (Lutheran) for accepting gays and allowing women to be pastors, etc etc etc.

I told him my mother was going to school to be a pastor, and to shut his fat mouth. He said that women ARE NOT and WILL NOT be pastors in HIS church. To him, the Catholic church is the only church, and any type of religion that lets women be leaders is sadly mistaken and should not be taken seriously.

I think that is just old fashioned and redneck and just obnoxious. You cannot bash a woman for being a pastor.

My mother does a great job and has great faith in God.

[Greenday]

I always find that the strictest sections of religions seem to be the most obnoxious with their beliefs. The church I go to back home, when I do go to church, always has had a female minister. And I thought they were all great speakers.

[Boozy]

To him, the Catholic church is the only church, and any type of religion that lets women be leaders is sadly mistaken and should not be taken seriously.

He's Catholic. Of course he's going to say that.

You're Lutheran. Of course you're going to disagree.

There's absolutely no point in two religious people debating their religions. You should have bailed on the whole conversation much earlier.

PS - Good luck to your mom! You must be very proud.

[Seshat]

To him, the Catholic church is the only church, and any type of religion that lets women be leaders is sadly mistaken and should not be taken seriously.

I presume that if you'd told him you were Buddhist, or Shinto, or Muslim, he'd have gone up in flames. How about that you were a follower of Voudoun? Or were Creek or Sioux and followed your traditional Spirits?


I'm a strong believer in 'Good done in any name remains good. Evil done in any name remains evil.' I don't think the 'rules' matter as much as the deed. Who cares if the preacher has one set of gonads or the other? Not me!

[rahmota]

Well I grew up episcopal which allows females to be preachers/ministers/pastors/whatever (along with homosexuals but thats another discussion entirely)
They pretty much seemed like they had as good a handle on the whole religion thing as any man did. there where good cool ones I met, goofballs, and uptight hypocrits. So basically the usual suspects.

And I thought that religion wasnt about the messenger but the message?

[squall]

Agreed...absolutely no reason why women should not preach their faith. Of course the Bible says otherwise....but the Bible does also say the earth is young and that a rainbow was made as a promise by God....not spectrums of light through water vapor.

Although I'm not Christian, I hold anyone in high regard who can preach their faith and live a faithful life...but not try to be holier than thou and shove it down others throats.

[Rapscallion]

I don't see the problem. Religion is a set of rules. If a particular set of rules belonging to one religion say that women may not preach, then that religion has those rules. It's not a right written into any constitution that women have to be given the right to preach from the pulpit.

A religion could have the belief that the far side of the moon turned pink when people on Earth couldn't see it. That's one of its rules/tenets - so what?

If the religion doesn't suit a person, they can have a good old schism. It's been quite popular in history.

Rapscallion

[AFPheonix]

There's really only one section in the Bible that mentions that women are not to speak in church, but there's countless anecdotes of females who were strong religious leaders and teachers in there.
Frankly, I'm of the opinion that a handle does not make one a good preacher, nor does the absence of one. It bothers me a little when I hear people lament that Ruth Graham should have been a boy, because she has a great teaching ability. So what? She still has that ability, now with more boobs! It has no bearing on what gender she is.

[rahmota]

Exactly. I've met examples of both sorts of either gender. All from the same denomination too......

first minister I can recall from when i was a kid. He was a cool guy. His brother was a homosexual so folks where welcome at the church like that (After I got old enough to learn why some of the guys in the congregation where more friendly than some of the other guys to each other). As a matter of fact I dont think he cared what color, sexual orientation or whatever you where as long as you believed and behaved like you did. Kinda reminds me of Father Mulcahy (In the later seasons) now that I look back at the good memories. (may he rest in the graces of his god)

He reitred when I was in my teens. The guy who replaced him was a total cold fish. All the social skills of a stick of wood. He also went over to high church (episcopalean) a bit from the relaxed methods that had been done. So things where abit more formal and stiff but still okay for most folks. his sense of humor was a bit off too. Sort of a religious geek. Folks where still welcome though.

He got transferred out.

Along comes this wonderful little lady (She had to stand on a step stool to see over the pulpit) from the missions. She was a throwback to the village minister who came out and sat and visited and cared about her congregations health body, spirit and soul. She came out while my grandma was sick and visited her and gave communion. By this time I had moved away from religion a bit and had forgotten my D&D books on the coffee table. You know what she did when she saw them? she actually talked to me about them intelligently and understood the aspects of the game. And when she saw I understood it was a game we actually had an interesting conversation about comparing religions and meanings of things. She also managed to bring me back into the church for a few more years before she got called back to the missions. Last I heard she was somewhere in the caribean or africa still doing the good work.

Her replacement was also female but about as different as you can get. A tall husky woman who had the personality and looks of aunt marge. Homosexuals where definately not welcome, nor where anyone who was not quite socially acceptable for whatever reason. She went back to the high church format. Very formal and stiff. The plate got passed around 4 or 5 times during the sunday service. She drove me and several other old timers out of the church. She was definately of the give til it hurts and her way or the highway format of preachers.

She got replaced recently and the new guy is kinda cool. I havent gone and heard him speak but am actually considering it. Supposedly he is somewhere between high and common liturgy. He did mothers funeral and was good. Talking to him he seemed polite and nice enough.

But as you can see from the examples form within one denomination all these folks supposedly share the same beliefs and the same script and the same doctrine but are all over the place in how they deliver it. I could change the gender descripters in each paragraph and it wouldnt change the way they where/are.

Like rapscallion said the church rules are what they are. If they want to let women be preachers then thats all good for them and if they dont then so be it and people need to chill out. If they dont like it then there are rules and methods for changing the rules or a good ol schism is available. Go start your own church. Go find one you like. No one really says that you need to stay with the same church. Its not like the christian god isnt the same god if you go from lutheran to baptist or something (at least thats the way it should work, realistically I know folks will disagree with that.) else in the same vein.

[powerboy]

I believe that women can do the same things as men. Some women even do it better.

[Amethyst Hunter]

This is one of many reasons why I went back to being agnostic (which is NOT the same thing as being atheist, at least how I personally define it) and will not associate with ANY organized religion. It's all become a big pissing contest over whose god's dick is bigger, basically.

That said, I fully support any person in their religious identity who follows the message of, as another person put it, "good done in any name remains good". The crap about women being told to 'shut up in church' is more directed towards gossips and busybodies who should have been paying attention to the message like they were supposed to, not conducting social hour. But, like everything else Biblical, it gets taken WAY out of context by those who would oppress others.

Maybe if there were more female leaders in positions of power, we wouldn't have so many of the stupid fights (small and large) we do now.

Good luck to your mom. She sounds like the kind of levelheaded and compassionate type of person we need more of in clergyfolk.

[Will-Mun]

He's Catholic. Of course he's going to say that.

You're Lutheran. Of course you're going to disagree.

There's absolutely no point in two religious people debating their religions. You should have bailed on the whole conversation much earlier.

PS - Good luck to your mom! You must be very proud.

Psh... Three posts in and what I was gonna say is already put up. Thanks alot Boozy!