This is why people hate Christianity and Christians...

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

...because of people like this doucebag:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091114/...st_child_abuse

I don't blame people for disliking the church after reading something like that. Hell it even gets a lot of feelings stirred up in me and I'm a christian.

[Ree]

So, it's OK to hate an entire group and assume everyone in that group holds exactly the same warped and twisted views, based on one warped and twisted person?

What he was preaching was not Christianity.
He set himself up as a false prophet.
That is a cult. It is not Christianity.

Just because he said it was, does not mean it's right.

[Flyndaran]

So, it's OK to hate an entire group and assume everyone in that group holds exactly the same warped and twisted views, based on one warped and twisted person?

What he was preaching was not Christianity.
He set himself up as a false prophet.
That is a cult. It is not Christianity.

Just because he said it was, does not mean it's right.

If you say you believe in christ, then by definition you are a christian. Not all branches of it are going to be what you like.

[Pedersen]

So, it's OK to hate an entire group and assume everyone in that group holds exactly the same warped and twisted views, based on one warped and twisted person?

Ree, that's disingenuous at best, and I'm actually disappointed in this reply from you.

How many stories have we heard of Catholic priests abusing children? How about that compound in Texas where girls were treated as property, married off at illegal ages, etc? How about any of the Christian senators in the US Congress who have turned out to be sexual abusers?

This is a recurring theme, not just a one-off incident. At least a couple of times per year we will hear about some group of people who consider themselves to be good, god-fearing Christians, railing against the sins and iniquities of other chosen groups, who have turned out to do the same sort of things that they are decrying in their hated groups.

In other words, at least a couple times per year, we hear about significant hypocrisy in the leadership of various Christian groups.

If this story were a one-off event, then the title would have been something closer to "Can you believe that this man called himself Christian?" Instead, it's another example of an event that is too common, and besmirches the reputation of the entire group.

After all, if the leadership is so full of hypocrisy, can the congregations be so far behind?

And while you sit there and stew, consider this: A significant number of people in this country despised Bush while he was President. However, that did not stop others from other countries painting the Bush haters with the same brush as the Bush lovers. Same sort of thing.

Both examples show despicable behavior by a whole bunch of people. The behavior by those who make the judgements (in both examples) is at least understandable. After all, these people are the leaders because they are allowed to be. The people being led have to let it happen. It makes everybody who follows them into a suspect.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Pedersen, your reply mirrors my views exactly.

It's not just one person, it's a whole slew of people. The problem is that there are plenty of good, decent Christians out there but thanks to this (sadly) growing minority of abusers and false prophets and two facers, more and more folks are souring on Christ.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Ree, that's disingenuous at best, and I'm actually disappointed in this reply from you.

.

You're disappointed with Ree because she called a bigoted statement for what it was?

If someone makes a broad, sweeping statement about an entire group based on the action of a few people, then it's bigotry.

[smileyeagle1021]

So, it's OK to hate an entire group and assume everyone in that group holds exactly the same warped and twisted views, based on one warped and twisted person?

Why not, the Bible does it all the time.
The term Gentile comes to mind...

Besides, it is a common enough practice among church leaderships... LDS church leadership routinely define all gay people as people who are merely too weak to overcome the "challenge of same sex attraction". Almost all churches preach that non members by definition cannot receive salvation, no matter what their character.
Those don't even base that on one person... those are based on assumptions that are based in ignorance. What goes around comes around as they say. Which is somewhat unfortunate, because I know there are many people (like you Ree) who are very good people who are Christian... that said, the church really needs to clean house.

[Flyndaran]

Exclusive salvationists are all nasty little turd burglars. I don't care if anyone calls me bigoted for that. They believe that I deserve to go to hell, so I say that in this war they shot first.

Generally, it is the organizations and those that support them that are the most harmful. Anyone that supports the catholic church is an accessory after the fact for all the child abuse scandals, for example.

[Ree]

If you say you believe in christ, then by definition you are a christian.

Just because you say you believe Christ existed, it doesn't make you a Christian.
Christianity is not only a belief in Christ, but it is also following his examples and teachings.

These people mentioned in the link, and by others as examples to refute my statement, are not following his teachings with their actions, so to hate all Christians and Christianity because some flawed humans have behaved horrendously in its name is, in my opinion, extremely bigoted.

I am a Christian, and while I'm far from perfect, I do try to live up to the example set by Christ.
I find it offensive that someone would justify hating me and my religion because others have trouble living up to their own faith and act in contradiction to it.

The Catholic church does not teach child molestation as a part of their doctrine.
I do not condone child molestation.
To say that I am an accessory after the fact in these horrendous abuses, just because I am a Catholic, is a reckless statement.

[Kalli]

So, it's OK to hate an entire group and assume everyone in that group holds exactly the same warped and twisted views, based on one warped and twisted person?

Ree, you've made quite a significant jump here.

Where exactly has anyone said that they assume "every christian holds exactly the same warped and twisted views" as this guy? That seems like hyperbole to me.

I think it's more the fact that Christians tend to think that because they are Christian, we should assume they are a good person. This is obviously not always the case. Terms like "she's a good Christian woman" piss me off. It is the literal epitome of the phrase "holier-than-thou" attitude.

[Ree]

Ree, you've made quite a significant jump here.

Where exactly has anyone said that they assume "every christian holds exactly the same warped and twisted views" as this guy? That seems like hyperbole to me.

Did you read the title?
"This is why people hate Christianity and Christians..."

I am a Christian, so therefore, people hate me because some whackjob with controlling behaviour and a God complex chose to warp his religion and act in the most non-Christian way possible?

[BroomJockey]

I am a Christian, so therefore, people hate me because some whackjob with controlling behaviour and a God complex chose to warp his religion and act in the most non-Christian way possible?

"Lie down with dogs, and wake up with fleas." These people are allowed to call themselves Christian even after these heinous acts happen. There is no denouncement or excommunication from higher up the church in the majority of cases. The Church even protected child molesting priests for years. So of course the average person is going to get the idea that the behaviour is condoned and accepted, or at least excused. Since they rightly feel these acts are morally reprehensible, why would they not take a dislike to an organization and its members that seem to not mind it?

And "silent disapproving majority" gets you no points either. After all, if you're silent, no one knows your views. Frankly, every time things like this happen, churches need to get together and send group letters to newspapers, the higher-ups in the church, everyone they can, stating they're taking a stand against that kind of behaviour. Or else people are just going to assume that you're fine with it. A few more of these assholes publicly disavowed might start to salvage the Church's reputation.

[Ree]

So, then, because some Muslim extremists advocate killing, then, the next time there is a suicide bombing in the name of Allah, it's OK to make a thread saying, "This is why people hate Muslims..."?

[Rapscallion]

Frankly, every time things like this happen, churches need to get together and send group letters to newspapers, the higher-ups in the church, everyone they can, stating they're taking a stand against that kind of behaviour.

Newspapers are famous for printing stories along the lines of, "Priest shagged choirboy," with pages of salacious content, and then at the end sticking in two lines from someone saying that it was a minority and not representative. I'm not certain if protests happen each and every time, but I know what gets reported.

Rapscallion

[BlaqueKatt]

So, then, because some Muslim extremists advocate killing, then, the next time there is a suicide bombing in the name of Allah, it's OK to make a thread saying, "This is why people hate Muslims..."?

No because the majority of Moslems will loudly and vocally denounce the perpitrator*-that is rarely seen within Christianity. How many religious leaders have come out against Fred Phelps and his ilk? one has publicly denounced him-just one.**

from this website-the writer puts it better than I can:
Not only have the evangelicals not disowned Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church, but most leaders of all denominations continue to not publicly denounce this ass-clown. I’m sure many Church leaders don’t hold the opinions that Phelps does, but by doing so little, they speak volumes to everyone. When he and his wackos show up to picket a funeral, they should be met by the entire community to drive them out. Silence is assent, and if you aren’t loudly, publicly, visibly condemning the hateful craziness of WBC because “sure, they’re radicals, but at least they’re Christians”, then you are enabling them.

*The chairman(of the council of American-Islamic relations) said, "Any effort by terrorists to hide their criminal activities under the mask of religious piety is being categorically and unequivocally rejected by mainstream Muslims."

and there's this
More than 20 prominent British Muslims have signed a joint letter denouncing antisemitic attacks and called for continued Muslim vigilance against antisemitism. Some of the UK's leading theologians, imams, writers, community activists and others have signed and circulated this message widely.

While the Pope embraces four bishops from the known anti-Semitic Society of St. Pius X. Pope Benedict XVI last year extended the olive branch to four bishops from a known organizational font of religious anti-Semitism, including Richard Williamson, a formerly excommunicated holocaust denier. This year, they rejoined the fold, and on the same day Williamson was rehabilitated back into the Catholic Church, he was still spouting conspiracy crack about the entirely debunked Protocols of Zion.

**google search for "church leaders denounce Fred Phelps" turns up nothing except artilces on what/who he's denouncing
google search for "Muslims denounce suicide bombings" you get tons of articles-they aren't afraid to speak out and let it be known they are not like the extremists-Christians don't do this.