To former Christians: Why do you no longer believe?

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Let me start off by saying that I am a Christian but let me also make CLEAR I am not out to gain ammunition to try and convert you back by starting this thread.

Actually, since becoming a Christian I've been absorbing a lot about church politics, church administration, the questions surrounding the Bible and God's supposed truth and the objections people have to Christianity and the church.

I'm curious as to why folks who once did believe do not anymore. Were they hurt by a Christian they thought they could trust? Were they put off by certain teachings of their particular denomination or church? Did they feel their parents/family forced Christianity down their throats as kids and so they left as a form of self liberation?

My own father was raised in a Christian family but is now an atheist and our family was secular growing up. I do not know why he left the church but do plan to ask him about it.

[Boozy]

Were they hurt by a Christian they thought they could trust? Were they put off by certain teachings of their particular denomination or church? Did they feel their parents/family forced Christianity down their throats as kids and so they left as a form of self liberation?

Honestly? I think the most common answer you'll get is "Christianity doesn't make any logical sense."

[draggar]

I was born and raised Christian (Well, Roman Catholic) and I had many issues with the main religion. I went though conformation just for my parents - after that the only time I went to a church was for a wedding, a funeral, and my nephew's christening (where I was not allowed to take part in it since I am Pagan).

My main gripes:

1) Women are treated like crap. Seriously (how many female priests are there?). Who is responsible for the original sin? Why was Mary Magdeline painted as a prostitute for thousands of years (and her gospel was "hidden" for centuries). This was also (shortly) touched on in Kevin Smith's movie "Dogma":

Serendipity: See, these being male-dominated times, the Pharisees and High Priests felt threatened by the idea of a woman lording over them and controlling their fates, so they made sure that She became a He. Doesn't stop with God - the whole book is slanted and gender-biased: a woman's responsible for the first sin, the fall of man, and the expulsion from
Eden. A woman cuts Samson's coif of power, a woman asks for the head of John the Baptist. Read that book again some time - women are painted as bigger antagonists than the f***ing Egyptians and Romans combined.

A few facts:

The female of most species on this planet choose the path of evolution, not the males.

It takes "two to tango". Children cannot be born with just one or the other, you need both to have a child.

Although in Latin America it's not like this. They worship Mary (Jesus' mother) as much, if not more, than Jesus himself (IMO a very Pagan way of looking at it).

2) The religion itself seems very elitist. Just look at the very first commandment which makes us think it is the most important:

"I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments."

IMO this sounds like a dictator. "Only worship me and no one else". WTF is that? I'm sure there would be an uproar if Obama (or any president) stood up and said "I am your only leader now and forever".

Read the Kor'an or the Tor'ah someday - you'll find them very similar to the old testamant - sometimes even word for word. Guess what? The main 3 religions are based off of the same stories (and yes, they're stories).

3) (This one came out later) - The church acts like they are above the law. With all the "scandals" that came out with priests - instead of most of them standing trial and facing a long jail term (which any one of us would be in right now if we did this) the church just paid off most of the victims and just relocated the priests. I know this scandal was a lot larger than the news made it seem - several priests where I went to church as a child also were part of it and you never heard about them on the news.

4) The Vatacan's consent of the slave trade (even until the AMerican civil war) and the "non involvement" stance during the holocaust. What happened to all this "thou shall not kill"? Does it only apply to Christians killing Christians?

5) Dead sea scrolls. The bible is yellow journalism. The gospels were hand picked during the councel of Nicaea (sp?) headed by Constantine while all the others were destroyed (and very few were successfully hidden and survived until today).

6) The foundation. While the church preaches understanding, tolerance, and "thou shall not kill" they spread though Europe like wildfire in the early 4th century. First they fought all of the Muslims out of modern day Spain and Portugal and then headed north and either forced conversion or killed off the Pagan tribes in Germany and the surrounding areas. We can thank Emperor Benedict and his establishment of the "Holy Roman Empire" for this.

7) It took the church 400 years to acknowledge that Copernicus was right in stating that the Earth is NOT the center of the universe (they finally did this back in the early 1990s - if I rememebr correctly thet reversed his excommunication or something like that).

The history of the Catholic church is one full of violence, hypocracy, and manipulated truths. Much of what they're condemming today (after acts of other religions).

8) Eating the blood and body of Christ - is it just me or does that seem canibalistic?

I'm sure if I thought about it I could come up with more reasons.

No, my trust wasn't violated by someone (directly), no one abused me, I didn't lose anyone, I didn't have a big fight, I just did what all people should do with their own and other religions - I read up on them and educated myself.

Paganism to me is one of the foundation religions of modern religion. Most of the others were based off of it and changed many of the traditions to suit their own needs (I went to a Wiccan winter solstice celebration last year and you'd be shocked at how similar it is to a Catholic mass). Pagans celebrate and worship the Earth (Mother Earth) and all her power as well as the Sun, Moon, Stars, nature, and so on.

Before I cook any meat (even store bought) I thank the animal that sacraficed it's body for us to eat. Whenever I collect eggs from my chickens I thank them for their eggs.

Why go searching for some "make believe" thing to worship when there's plety here?

The coyote - the Native Americans considered him the creator. Today he is natur's best adapter and survivor. Very intelligent but impulsive, a survivor and a joker.

The wolf is the coyote's older, wiser brother (Native American, too) yet we hunted them very close to extinction because we moved in on their land.

The crow (in many mythos) is the Valkyrie who takes warriors up to heaven.

Cats are guardians (Egyptian)

Dogs are our loyal companions.

Livestock sacrafice their lives ot help us survive.

[Bloodsoul]

I'm too lazy to go to church. Also I pretty much only went to church/sunday school as a kid because I had to go; that and Catholic services bored me, but then I've been to other demoninations and wasn't too keen on them, either.

Meh, I have a hard enough time writing up religions for my Dungeons & Dragons campaign without having to worry about real-world ones.

[protege]

Did they feel their parents/family forced Christianity down their throats as kids and so they left as a form of self liberation?

That was one reason I left. I went to a Catholic grade school from 2nd grade until 8th. I don't know about the rest of you, but having religion class 5 days a week, and then getting dragged to church every Sunday...was a bit much. Also, it didn't help that most "free thought" in that place was squelched. Many of us felt that the school bordered on a dictatorship. That is, you weren't really allowed to question anything, lest you get into trouble. Right around that point, some of the idiots in charge told me that I'd "never amount to anything." Keep in mind that a *priest* (who was an asshole to begin with) and a *nun* (the principal of the school at that time) told me that.

By 8th grade, I'd had enough. That year, things went downhill--I'd already been treated like shit by most people, Grandpa had died, Dad's ad agency had failed, etc. and I simply felt that my prayers weren't being answered. I grew tired of being forced to do something that really wasn't worth it. That is, why should I pray or worship an entity that didn't seem to care?

Towards the end of that year was when I went through Confirmation. Mom said that I didn't have to, but I did it anyway. Felt I had to--otherwise she probably would have laid a massive guilt trip on me otherwise. Years on, I can't say I really miss any of that stuff.

[Greenday]

Honestly? I think the most common answer you'll get is "Christianity doesn't make any logical sense."

Pretty much my reason. I stopped believing once I learned the question, "Why?" and the only response I got involves blind faith. Something needs proof in order to be true in my opinion.

[lordlundar]

In my case, it's not so much as I no longer believe, as I refuse to accept the doctrine of any particular religion. I follow my own heart, and refuse to accept a religion's stance of an actual sentient being behind everything.

You see, every religion names their divine being and shows miracles of said being's existence. To me, that makes said divine being reachable, attainable, despite being told it isn't. So rather than deal with the contradiction and hypocrisy that seems to engulf every religion, I simply choose my own path.

[Ghel]

Honestly? I think the most common answer you'll get is "Christianity doesn't make any logical sense."

This.

To elaborate, I was raised Catholic, but started doubting my faith when my father died. I was 15. My brother was 12. My first response was to pray. Why, I asked, did God take away a good, kind man from a family that loved and needed him? After much prayer and introspection, I came to realize that God was not what I had been raised to believe he was. After several more years of thought and research, I came to the conclusion that no definition of god that I had come across made sense, and I started calling myself an atheist.

[Greenday]

Good point. It doesn't help that bad things seem to happen to good people more often than not and good things happen to bad people more often than not. And if that's what any god intended...why would I place my faith in him?

[Amanita]

The internet played a large part in my conversion. While still a Christian, I began reading a lot of christian websites. I hate to say it, but reading many of them left me feeling spiritually filthy, as if I had been rolling in mud and crap. My current Pagan self would say I needed a smudging or cleansing ritual afterward! But when I read most Pagan writings, I found myself shaking my head, saying "This is what I've always believed, this is right!"

As others have said, too many churches harbour some very archaic ideas about women. That it's sinful for us to not want kids, sinful not to be married, that we are not equal partners and are required to live in subjection to a man, that even working outside the home or wearing pants is sinful. WTF? That even if our man is bone-breakingly violent, we can't leave him- it's god's will that this man is our head, and we must accept whatever he gives us with grace.
Fuck that with a thousand dicks up its ass. As with many relationships where an imbalance of power exists, the responsibilities of the higher partner are often overlooked. If you read the bible, a man has to do a LOT to remain worthy of obedience. But that often gets overlooked, it becomes all about the woman's duties, and the man's rights.

I believe the catholic ban on birth control is responsible for much suffering in the world- too many people with no alternative but celibacy having kids they don't want, or can't look after.

Many churches have too many damned rules- how you must dress, who you can be friends with, and so on ad nauseum. I've learned to reject religious legalism, and it causes me distress to see bits of it popping up in Pagandom from time to time.
In the Pagan community, my self expression is accepted and welcomed. In many churches, my writings and art would be considered spiritually suspect, and my expression through clothing offensive and disrespectful. (No, I don't mean coming to church in skimpy clothes. Just different from the mainstream) And before anyone argues that I should dress in plain "normal" clothing for church, why should I have to wear a false facade to worship? Are my handmade jacket and waistcape really THAT offensive to the sight of God?

I've always been an Urban Animist- the indwelling spirits of skyscrapers calling to me as surely as the trees call out to a druid. Ever since I was a kid, even before I had the words to describe it, even before I knew anything of a spirit world. As a christian, I worried that God would send me to hell for using this ability of mine. Now, as a Pagan, I ask what cruel and twisted god would give somebody a gift, then damn them eternally for using it?
Again, the internet has been a blessing. I've found that I am not alone, there are others like me. For whatever reason, the Gods have tuned some of us in to a different spiritual frequency, for purposes I can't yet fully ascertain.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Easy; I stopped believing in God cuz Christianity doesn't make any sense, and I saw no point in it. Same reason as not believing in the tooth fairy, or Santa, really.

I developed this viewpoint at about the age of fourteen; I'd say that I'm mostly atheist, with a leaning towards LaVeyan Satanism. Only a leaning, cuz I'm far too lazy to practice any belief system, even one with rules that makes sense.

[jackfaire]

Because I was told that God sacrificed his son, but then was told Jesus went back to Heaven to be with his Dad.

This means that for around 30 odd years God was without his son.

Jesus sacrifice was that he died painfully and this somehow covered all of our sins. How?

WE sin and don't accept Jesus or even prior to Jesus then we must go to Hell and pay for our sins. All Jesus has to do is die painfully and that is good enough?

It never made sense to me.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

OK let me reply to several points I've read in the replies:

- One person said that belief in God is silly because there is no actual definitive proof he exists. However, isn't the whole idea of religion and faith that something is accepted AS truth without need of any proof to justify it?

- Don't get me started on the catholic church. I've never liked Catholic teachings and most Chrisitans I know aren't keen on Catholic doctrine either. The whole idea of the Pope makes no sense to me and I do not know how this has become the largest denomination.

- Eating the blood and body of Christ - is it just me or does that seem canibalistic?

I do not believe this was ever meant to be taken literally and is instead symbolic of those who take communion pledging to serve Christ (and by extension God). I do however think it could have been relayed in a more approrpriate way than to say eating and drinking the flesh and blood of Christ.

- On the treatment of women: The status of women in the bible is indicative of the status of women during Biblical times. Women have been considered "secondary" so to speak well into the early 20th century. In the 1900s women couldn't work, couldn't vote and couldn't do a bunch of other things they can do now. Gender equality is a very new thing. Note that though I am a christian I do not believe that women are secondary creatures.

Also, I'd like to point out (as the bible does) that when Christ reappeared following his resurrection, the first people he revealed himself to were two women. That's a pretty significant thing (as Jesus knew that hardly anyone would believe two women when they told the people he had risen, but he chose to appear before them anyway).

- It's difficult to separate the Church from God sometimes, but they are very different entities. Most of the positive experiences I've had with God have taken place on a very personal level, when I am in private prayer, rather than when I'm listening to a preacher or reading some Christian book.

[Greenday]

- One person said that belief in God is silly because there is no actual definitive proof he exists. However, isn't the whole idea of religion and faith that something is accepted AS truth without need of any proof to justify it?

I didn't say God is silly. I just don't believe in something that can't be proven. Yes it's the whole idea of religion. Which is precisely why I don't follow religion. Blind faith makes no sense to me.

[Amina516]

As someone else said, it makes absolutely no sense. None whatsoever. Christian concepts are completely contradictory.

Im kinda at a crossroads. I feel like there HAS to be something more/ something else out there. But IDK what or who it is.

When I get down/depressed/sad/scared i find myself praying, but on a different level than i used to I guess. More like im talking to my friend (or myself) than i am to a God that should be worshipped/revered at all times. It scares me since i was rasied in church, but i can no longer go with what i feel to be a lie.