To former Christians: Why do you no longer believe?

[ladyneeva]

I cannot in good conscious follow any religion that decrees that people deserve the worst possible punishments, both in this life and beyond, simply for the 'sin' of loving the wrong person.

[Lace Neil Singer]

For the record, I was raised as a Christian. However, none of it makes any sense and I simply can't believe in God. Why is believing in God alright, when believing in fairies isn't? There's zero proof that God exists; plus, the bible constantly contradicts itself.

Proof of contradictions wanted? Read: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

[Fryk]

One of the stupidest ideas in the Bible, to me anyway, is the concept of Hell, as it relates to humans. Whatever sin you commit in your lifespan (let's estimate that at 100 years) can earn you a sentence of INFINITY in hell. You stole something from someone when you were, say 18 years old, and never asked for forgiveness- guess what? You get to spend an ENTERNITY in Hell for it!

The human judicial system (at least the more 'civilized' systems) strive to make the punishment fit the crime. Are we to believe that the most perfect being who will ever be is not as humane as us 'fallen' humans?

[Ghel]

- One person said that belief in God is silly because there is no actual definitive proof he exists. However, isn't the whole idea of religion and faith that something is accepted AS truth without need of any proof to justify it?

Yes, and that's part of what's wrong with religion. I can't speak for anybody else, but I would prefer that my beliefs were true. When I found out there was no basis for believing that anything I had been brought up with had even a shred of evidence behind it, I felt like I had been scammed my entire life by everybody I cared about.

- Don't get me started on the catholic church. ...I do not know how this has become the largest denomination.

The Catholic church is the largest because it was the first, and for a long time, the only denomination.

- It's difficult to separate the Church from God sometimes, but they are very different entities.

You can't separate God from the Church, because the Church created God. Every denomination, every religion, has a different view of what God is, how he should be worshipped, etc.

Most of the positive experiences I've had with God have taken place on a very personal level, when I am in private prayer, rather than when I'm listening to a preacher or reading some Christian book.

That's fine if you believe because it makes you feel good. I see no problem with that, as long as you don't try to convince anybody else to follow your god on the basis of your personal experiences. Your experiences are not going to convince me that a god exists (with any definition worth caring about).

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

As someone else said, it makes absolutely no sense. None whatsoever. Christian concepts are completely contradictory.

Can you elaborate on this? What contradictions are you speaking of?

I cannot in good conscious follow any religion that decrees that people deserve the worst possible punishments, both in this life and beyond, simply for the 'sin' of loving the wrong person.

By "wrong person" I take it to mean you are speaking of homosexuality?

If that's the case I would like to point out there is a lot of controversy over how homosexuality is viewed by God, since there are different interpretations of the bible verses dealing with homosexuality and what they actually mean. I think the argument I read was something with how sexual sinners were viewed in biblical times and how homosexual people are seen now.

Why is believing in God alright, when believing in fairies isn't? There's zero proof that God exists; plus, the bible constantly contradicts itself.

A Christian may say that believing in fairies is not okay but from a societal point of view people are free to believe whatever they want. Scientologists for example, believe in some very unusual things. If you are speaking of why does the Bible say that believing in God is okay but believing in fairies is not, that's because the Bible assumes God to be real and therefore it makes more sense to believe in something that's real than something that isn't.

[ladyneeva]

If you lived in my area, your statement that indicates that homosexuals might not be deserving of eternal damnation would, in itself, be viewed as grounds for eternal damnation. There is actually a probably 100+ comment article on my local newspaper's website about that very issue right now.

While there may be some churches for whom the homosexual issue is less of a problem, I would be very much surprised if there were more than a dozen churches worldwide where it wasn't considered a sin. And I'm sorry, but I find it impossible to believe that anyone can honestly truly believe someone is a sinner and not have that belief color their view of that person. I don't buy the 'love the sinner, hate the sin' thing. There is no possible way you can convince me that it is possible to hate, as in condemn to eternal torment level hate, something that is a large part of why someone is the person that they are, without that hate coloring your view of that person.

I have other problems with the Christian religion, but thats the big one -- the belief that an infallible God who created all things would create some people to have desires for which he would sentence them to eternal damnation and torment unless they spend their lives hating themselves and pretending to be someone they're not.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Plus, you didn't cover my second opinion, about the bible constantly contradicting itself. From the link that I provided:

On what did Jesus ride into Jerusalem?

On an ass and a colt.
Matthew 21:5-7
Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass. And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.

On a colt.
Mark 11:7
And they brought the colt to Jesus, and cast their garments on him; and he sat upon him.

Luke 19:35
And they brought him to Jesus: and they cast their garments upon the colt, and they set Jesus thereon.

On a young ass.
John 12:14
And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon.

The two contradictory creation accounts.


Genesis 1:25-27
(Humans were created after the other animals.)

And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.

(Humans were created before the other animals.)

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

(The first man and woman were created simultaneously.)

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

(The man was created first, then the animals, then the woman from the man's rib.)

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

Is it wrong to have sex outside of marriage?

Yes.

Exodus 20:14, Deuteronomy 5:18
Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Hebrews 13:4
Whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

No.

Hosea 1:2
And the Lord said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms....

Hosea 3:1
Then said the Lord unto me, God yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress.

It's a bit difficult to trust in a book that can't even stick to the same damn story. Plus, just where is the proof that God exists, and fairies don't? Not saying I believe in either, just that believing in either is as fallible as the other.

[Rageaholic]

Okay, I've been meaning to post my views for a while, but couldn't think of a starting thread.

A little something about me, I was raised in a religious household, but we were more liberal than a lot of other church folks. We were against abortion, but we didn't have anything against birth control. We also weren't into all the rules. My parents never forced religious opinions on us other than having us go to church and go through the sacriments. Basically, I just lived my life, not worrying about god or any afterlife even though I knew I was catholic.

Then one day, something called the internet opened me up to the bad side of Christianity. These were the folks who were preaching hellfire, were super religious, were into the "giving up your life to god" stuff, and pretty much intolerant of any other view. The stuff I read on hell, a place you could go to suffer without end scared the hell out of me. I believed in hell, but never really thought much of it until now.

Well, having just started college, this was a pretty intense time of my life, giving me MORE questions in addition to what I want to do with my life. I tried finding answers, but only came up with more questions, and when I did get answers, they never fully convinced me, but still left that "what if" feeling in my head.

I agonized over all these little sins that could send me to hell for eternity and lived in complete terror. Every Christian site I went on, I would hear the same thing about how 'easy' it is to be saved, but then there would always be opposing views claiming "these people aren't really saved because of so and so!". Then I would hear about how Jesus would be the only one who could save me and I shouldn't listen to "humans".

Eventually, I realized I was being driven mad about things I couldn't possibly know about. I then realized that I never really understood Christianity. How the hell am I supposed to just "give it up to god", an entity I cannot see? Also, what does it mean to have a "relationship with Jesus?". Again, I can't have a relationship with someone I cannot see. Even worse is I'm supposed to put everything else secondary to god? WTF IS THIS ABOUT?! Maybe if god would fucking show himself, more people would be willing to follow him, and not be lead astray by "false prophits". Then there's those who say, that we are incapible of understanding god's ways. Well if that's the case, why even try?

There are a lot of things that don't make sense, but that covers the most of it. I am NOT going to spend my whole life searching for god when god won't give hardly any evidence he even exists. Even if god does exist, it doesn't give any religion credence over another. The simple point is, I do not know enough to put my whole life on the line. And I haven't even covered the twisted sense of 'justice' that is hell.

[Lachrymose]

I think this guy has some of the best arguments against Christianity that I've heard.

I don't like how he keeps interrupting (but at least he didn't make him look stupid like Bill Maher did in Religulous. Uggh..wasn't a fan of that.)

Also, I don't really like the "Destroys a Christian" title of the videos, but I didn't make them.

Thoughts?


YouTube- Atheist Experience - Matt destroys a Christian (Part 1)

YouTube- Atheist Experience - Matt destroys a Christian (Part Two)

[SorryIsGoodEnough]

First, I stopped believing that there was only one true church. I believed that all churches that preached good works and faith and love for all were right in some way.

And then I got depressed, and wanted to kill myself. The only thing holding me back was my fear of going to hell. Even though everyone I knew who was Christian didn't believe suicide victims went to hell, it was still part of the dogma.

And now, I don't believe in Christianity or God at all. Because I plan on killing myself, it's either fear Hell or believe that I'll find peace.

I'd rather believe in peace.

[Fryk]

You know what started me on the path to just dumping the whole church idea? One little bumper sticker: "God Said it, I believe it, that settles it!"

There is so much wrong in that one sentence that it destroyed the whole system for me, a system I believed in wholeheartedly up to that point. What, does God want you to chuck critical thinking and common sense out the window? Then why did he create people that way in the first place? Why does it seem like everything about Christianity runs counter to the way God created us? Why would he deliberately hamstring our chances for salvation right at the start?

"Oh," people told me, "It's not that way at all! All the problems we have in relating to God are the result of man's fallen state!"

Horseshit. Are you telling me that God made us to be devoid of logic, but sinning against God caused us to be able to think and reason? And what does man's fallen state have to do with God CHOOSING to not reveal himself to us plainly?

"Well, you see, us being fallen seperates us from God, and that's why we can't see him."

Well, that pretty much blows the whole omnipotent spiel right out the water, doesn't it?

I could go on and on and on. Funny how one little bumper stcker can cause such a fuss, isn't it? Maybe there's something to them, after all.

[Rageaholic]

You know what started me on the path to just dumping the whole church idea? One little bumper sticker: "God Said it, I believe it, that settles it!"

There is so much wrong in that one sentence that it destroyed the whole system for me, a system I believed in wholeheartedly up to that point. What, does God want you to chuck critical thinking and common sense out the window? Then why did he create people that way in the first place? Why does it seem like everything about Christianity runs counter to the way God created us? Why would he deliberately hamstring our chances for salvation right at the start?

"Oh," people told me, "It's not that way at all! All the problems we have in relating to God are the result of man's fallen state!"

Horseshit. Are you telling me that God made us to be devoid of logic, but sinning against God caused us to be able to think and reason? And what does man's fallen state have to do with God CHOOSING to not reveal himself to us plainly?

"Well, you see, us being fallen seperates us from God, and that's why we can't see him."

Well, that pretty much blows the whole omnipotent spiel right out the water, doesn't it?

I could go on and on and on. Funny how one little bumper stcker can cause such a fuss, isn't it? Maybe there's something to them, after all.

After debating this stuff with apologists for years, this was pretty much how most arguements would go even though I've heard the same thing again and again. To me, it was making excuses as to why Christianity doesn't add up. I say Christianity mind you, not a belief in god because I'm still holding out hope for that. I just hope that if there is a god, he is nothing like the bible god.

[MergedLoki]

Honestly? I think the most common answer you'll get is "Christianity doesn't make any logical sense."

I agree with that, but IMO I don't think ANY religion makes sense (logical or illogical :P).

But i'm a cynic and a skeptic of all things and all i see in organized religion is the attempt of people to gain power and control over OTHER people by saying 'we have the answers, we have what you need'

[Boozy]

I agree with that, but IMO I don't think ANY religion makes sense

Me neither. Although it's worth noting that every person in the world, even non-religious ones, believe illogical things.

My nephew is the cutest boy in the world. I KNOW it. That's illogical, but I am unshaken in that belief.

That's why I don't pick on Christianity much for being "nonsense." We all believe in nonsense. In the words of a Christian, "Let those without sin cast the first stone."

[Ghel]

In the words of a Christian, "Let those without sin cast the first stone."

Actually, this is another thing about Christianity that doesn't make sense. What is sin? And if, as many Christians say, we are all sinners, then no human should ever punish any other human for any reason.

And, yes, we are all delusional to some extent, but I don't think that the belief that your nephew is the cutest boy in the world is anywhere near as delusional as the belief that an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being created the world in 6 days and will send his creations to eternal torment for not worshipping him, despite there being no evidence that he exists.

(I apologize for the horrible run-on sentence.)