To former Christians: Why do you no longer believe?

[Boozy]

And, yes, we are all delusional to some extent, but I don't think that the belief that your nephew is the cutest boy in the world is anywhere near as delusional as the belief that an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being created the world in 6 days ...

Most Christians I know are not biblical literalists. They take Christianity's creation myth as metaphor rather than fact.

Actually, this is another thing about Christianity that doesn't make sense. What is sin? And if, as many Christians say, we are all sinners, then no human should ever punish any other human for any reason.

That's not quite what I take from that story. Jesus was addressing an angry mob that was about to stone a woman to death for adultery. I think we can all agree that would have been a gross overreaction.

[Ghel]

Most Christians I know are not biblical literalists. They take Christianity's creation myth as metaphor rather than fact.

Yes, I realize that. But there is a very vocal minority that claims to believe the bible is the literal (or, at least, inspired) truth, despite its problems.

That's not quite what I take from that story. Jesus was addressing an angry mob that was about to stone a woman to death for adultery. I think we can all agree that would have been a gross overreaction.

Do you mean that stoning a woman to death for adultery would have been a gross overreaction? Because that was the standard punishment for that crime at that place and time. Or are you saying that my response of "no human should ever punish any other human for any reason" is a gross overreaction? I agree - that was my point.

Either way, the concept of sin still makes no sense. Is it a crime against humans? Then why should God care? Is it a crime against God? How can a human possibly harm God? And if it's not a crime, why should anybody care?

[Rageaholic]

Either way, the concept of sin still makes no sense. Is it a crime against humans? Then why should God care? Is it a crime against God? How can a human possibly harm God? And if it's not a crime, why should anybody care?

Yup. Some sins make no sense.

Lust, for instance. How the hell does god expect humans not to have sexual thoughts? HE MADE THEM THAT WAY! And yet, he doesn't want us to express it. Jesus said something about if you even look at a woman with lust, you have commited adultery. WTF IS THAT ABOUT? It's not hurting anyone, it's not like rape, but because god knows you're thinking naughty thoughts, you're gonna burn for it! Maybe god shouldn't have given us "free will" if he wanted us to be such perfect beings.

Pride is another one, why shouldn't we feel proud of our own acheivements? Oooh coz we can't do anything without god. No, fuck you, I just did. Does god really need such constant validation from his creation? Or are we that worthless to him. I mean afterall, god says we all deserve to burn in hell for ever, and only because of him some of us won't (at least according to that god awful Calvinist theology). Yeah, real great message of hope, unless you have exceedingly low standards of what 'hope' is. I don't care what anyone says, NO ONE DESERVES TO BURN IN HELL FOREVER! PERIOD!!!!

[Lachrymose]

Yes, I realize that. But there is a very vocal minority that claims to believe the bible is the literal (or, at least, inspired) truth, despite its problems.

You want to check out a doozy of a site? Go to http://rr-bb.com/ .

That is Rapture Ready forums.

100% Bible literalists (well, generally)..hard core fundies.

Most of the people who post there are otherwise very intelligent, but they can't see past their own beliefs at all.

[Amina516]

Can you elaborate on this? What contradictions are you speaking of?

Certainly. This is one of the many websites that pop if you look it up. Not relyinbg entirely on just the internetz, i have looked at this stuff on my own and its pretty accurate. http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Contradictions.htm Another good siteHere

I just dont get the "rules" not the 10 commandments, but the different, scattered rules in the bible. It seems as if some people pick and choose which ones to follow and/or condemn while ignoring other rules and making themselves seem pure according to their own translation. Also the dumb stuff thats in there such as not eating cloven animals, and eating anything from the sea thats not a scaled fish is a crime, or the purification ritual for women on menstration? I dont get it.

And simply, and perhaps the most important for me is that it was written by man, and put together by man. Man is flawed and certainly not perfect. The fact that the books of the bible were picked carefully and others excluded. Why? Why not compile everything good and bad? Books that showed Jesus's more human side were left our purposefully. Other than the fact that itd be a montrous sized volume, its not a complete work.

I do think tho, that a lot of hatred for christians may be due to the tyrannical ways of some christians that are rigid in their interpretations and despite being in a religion that is supposed to be accepting of all, preach hatred of certain groups and have the gall to blame homosexuals for 9/11 and dumb stuff like that ie Jerry Falwell. (sorry, a hell of a run on sentence that was.)

ETA: Another good site. http://www.bidstrup.com/bible2.htm

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Plus, you didn't cover my second opinion, about the bible constantly contradicting itself. From the link that I provided:

It's a bit difficult to trust in a book that can't even stick to the same damn story. Plus, just where is the proof that God exists, and fairies don't? Not saying I believe in either, just that believing in either is as fallible as the other.

Pick a news story that has multiple eyewitness accounts and you'll likely find that although the basic facts are the same (in the case of the Biblical account you spoke of, Jesus came to town on some kind of animal) but the specifics are not.

A wolf in one account may become a dog in another. A red sweater could change to blue, a "light rain" could become a "torrential downpour" but that doesn't change the basic fact that it is raining.

People's memories are not perfect, details get confused from time to time. Note that many criminal cases do not require proof of every single detail to secure a conviction. You can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that person A killed person B even if there is uncertainty over exactly what color of pants he was wearing a the time (e.g. it would impossible to tell black from dark blue in poor light).

[Gerrinson]

Yeah, I'm going to have to chime in with the 'no logical sense' crowd. That and everytime I asked 'Why?' I was never given a straight answer.

I first read the Bible cover to cover when I was 10. I didn't really find it all that convincing of God's existence. Also, the story of Job warped my fragile little mind - God makes someone suffer miserably just to prove a point to Satan? is that shit?

Reading the Bible did arm with a lot of questions. It was even more fun when I got a bit older (12ish) and starting quoting verse right back at people who tried to just browbeat me into agreeing with them. And lets just say I got a LOT of use out of 'Judge not lest ye be judged.' Pissed off my mother to no end.

What really did it in was when I reread the Bible cover to cover just prior to confirmation (required in my church.) I got confirmed simply because I was told 'if you get confirmed, you're a member of the church and can decide how/when you attend.' The Sunday when I was confirmed was the last time I went to church voluntarily barring weddings/funerals. Also one of the few times I made my mother so angry she had no words. A feat of epic proportions, believe me.

And the Catholic side of my family are oppressive racist nutjobs, which, compared to my Protestant upbringing just pushed me further away.

The one thing that brought me back closer to anything approaching religion was actually the study of physics. I am fully prepared to believe that there is some being with knowledge/power/cool sci fi toys way beyond mere humans. But is that creature God? Probably not. If said being could provide some sort of evidence to prove they were the Creator of this universe, then I might be willing to buy into it.

But unless God is really into the Sims Universe, why would an all powerful being spend their time watching every second of every life of the species that brought into being The Jerry Springer Show? I mean, seriously, get an eternal life already.

Oh, yeah, and lets not forget that whole 'The Bible is everything and science is nothing' bit. Sorry, but I love math, science, etc. Science, on the whole, is a subject that is constantly updating and improving based on experience and knowledge gained and science is willing to accept that we do not have all the answers. Not something one can say of most religions, particularly Christianity as a whole.

[fireheart17]

You want to check out a doozy of a site? Go to http://rr-bb.com/ .

That is Rapture Ready forums.

100% Bible literalists (well, generally)..hard core fundies.

Most of the people who post there are otherwise very intelligent, but they can't see past their own beliefs at all.

I read through that and all I have to say about that website is just

ETA: One of the threads I'm reading about is on this: http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=121081&page=2 (I don't have a membership by the way)

Ugh....I have no words for that particular thread.

[Ghel]

Also, the story of Job warped my fragile little mind - God makes someone suffer miserably just to prove a point to Satan? is that shit?

Yeah, I think the point was, "This guy worships me so much that I bet I can do horrible, nasty things to him, and he'll still worship me." That just goes to show that the God of the bible is evil. And before anybody says that the God of the New Testament is better, I must remind everybody that Jesus was the one who introduced the concept of eternal hellfire, which makes him, by far, the most evil character in the whole book.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Pick a news story that has multiple eyewitness accounts and you'll likely find that although the basic facts are the same (in the case of the Biblical account you spoke of, Jesus came to town on some kind of animal) but the specifics are not.

A wolf in one account may become a dog in another. A red sweater could change to blue, a "light rain" could become a "torrential downpour" but that doesn't change the basic fact that it is raining.

People's memories are not perfect, details get confused from time to time. Note that many criminal cases do not require proof of every single detail to secure a conviction. You can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that person A killed person B even if there is uncertainty over exactly what color of pants he was wearing a the time (e.g. it would impossible to tell black from dark blue in poor light).

Did you click the link I gave you, or just read the examples I gave? We're not just talking about one or two occasions where what you're saying might be true, but a huge list of contradictions. Honestly, faith is one thing; but believing in the infallibility of what is basically the greatest work of fiction ever is taking faith a bit too far. -.-

Yeah, I think the point was, "This guy worships me so much that I bet I can do horrible, nasty things to him, and he'll still worship me." That just goes to show that the God of the bible is evil. And before anybody says that the God of the New Testament is better, I must remind everybody that Jesus was the one who introduced the concept of eternal hellfire, which makes him, by far, the most evil character in the whole book.

Especially when you look at what he did, or didn't do, to the likes of King David (basically a war criminal) and Lot's daughters. Yup, let's pick and choose who we smite, shall we?

[Lachrymose]

I read through that and all I have to say about that website is just

ETA: One of the threads I'm reading about is on this: http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=121081&page=2 (I don't have a membership by the way)

Ugh....I have no words for that particular thread.

What I find most interesting is that they are all just wallowing in misery waiting for their savior to rapture them.
They don't even realize how miserable, deluded, and in reality quite selfish, they are.

Some of the users I find downright amusing, but there are some I feel sorry for.

It's also very hive-mind oriented. If someone posts "outside the box" thinking they get attacked. They claim anyone who does this is a troll.
God forbid you even think about liking the baby-killer Obama.

No one can ever have a decent debate over there, because once you cross that line, everyone basically piles on you, claiming you aren't a Christian, and what does Jesus mean to you, blah blah blah.

Also, I do kind of recommend signing up there if interested. Not to post, but to see the section called "Apologetics".
They let non-Christians post there, but eventually they get attacked and banned.

Oh, and also check out Fundies Say the Darndest Things: www.fstdt.net. That's how I found RR to being with.

[Rageaholic]

Yeah, rapture ready is a scary, depressing website. That and all of the stuff on FSTDT really show the bad side of Christianity. There were so many fucked up things I've found on the web that now just make me weep for humanity.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Oh, and also check out Fundies Say the Darndest Things: www.fstdt.net. That's how I found RR to being with.

Once more...

http://wwww.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.a...D=17671&Page=4

[Rageaholic]

Once more...

http://wwww.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.a...D=17671&Page=4

Gotta be a poe, but either way.

http://www.pacdudegames.com/fail/

[Lachrymose]

And as a disclaimer, don't even take everything you see on fstdt as "gospel", even if it doesn't seem like a Poe.

Sometimes, someone submits a post that was actually tongue-in-cheek to begin with on the source forum.

But everyone on fstdt usually runs with it without checking the source.