Religion bashing

[Ree]

Why has it become so fashionable to bash and criticize?

You know what?

I happen to be quite happy with my faith and my religion.

That you have your own issues with it doesn't concern me.
That's between you and the deity of your choice.

If you don't like my choice, fine.
Get the fuck out of my church, shut the fuck up about your thoughts and feelings, and let me practice my own religion in the way I see fit with the deity of my choice.

[crashhelmet]

I think it's because of the many people that claim to be of the faith that bash others, instead of practicing what they preach. In no way does that justify it though.

Taking Christianity for example, bashing other Christians and the Christian Faith because of ass hats like Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, and Jerry Fallwell is like bashing African-Americans because Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton say something stupid. The existence of the KKK and other white supremacy groups doesn't make all Caucasians automatically racist. But yet, Christians are attacked because of a select few and the sheep that follow them.

CH

[Ree]

But that's not really what I'm talking about.

It's the , "Oh, you're Catholic..." group who then proceed to tell you everything that's wrong with your religion, and then mock your choice to stay in that church with insults like "sheeple" and questioning your intelligence.

You know what?

I don't care what you think, and I don't need to be educated.

Go away and leave me in peace.

[draggar]

I don't bash religion. I bash lies, misinterpretations, and mis-teachings.

[crashhelmet]

I don't bash religion. I bash lies, misinterpretations, and mis-teachings.

How do you know what is true though? They say "History is written by the winner" and depending on where you live, the propaganda machine may control what you do learn. For all we know, our history classes in school could all be lies, misinterpretations, and/or mis-teachings.

CH

[Nyoibo]

If you don't like my choice, fine.
Get the fuck out of my church, shut the fuck up about your thoughts and feelings, and let me practice my own religion in the way I see fit with the deity of my choice.

I'll say the same thing I said to a friend a while ago, I'll stay out of the church when the church stays out of my life.

However I also told her that I have no problem with her beliefs as long as they stay "her" beliefs.

[the_std]

I believe that religion bashing is coming into vogue now because the pendulum is swinging the other way. Think of how damn long religion dominated everyone and everything. All the way up till the 50s, you were a good Christian by default, and if you spoke out against it you were ostracized and hated. In comparison to how long religion ruled peoples' lives, we are still in the infancy of recognizing correspondingly vast multiculturalism and individualism... And people who are freed of something will often take it to the other extreme right off the bat.

I'm not saying it's right to simply spout off at someone just because of your religion. I do, however, very much enjoy the freedom to debate the merits of religion without being immediately bashed right back.

[draggar]

How do you know what is true though? They say "History is written by the winner" and depending on where you live, the propaganda machine may control what you do learn. For all we know, our history classes in school could all be lies, misinterpretations, and/or mis-teachings.

CH

There is a lot that I cannot confirm as the truth or not BUT:

When I was in conformation class (Christian) we were told by the teacher that "Dungeons and Dragons is a satanic game". Of course, it is not and I expressed my disapproval of that statement - only to be branded as a satanist.

Many die-hard Christians believe (and are being taught) that all Pagans are Satan worshippers and all Wiccans are exactly like the wicked witches from The Wizard of Oz - nothing could be further from the truth on either case.

The main religions' claims that they treat everyone equally. Sure, how many women hold high positions in the main 3 (Catholic, Jewish, Muslim) religions?

People need to research their religions and not take what's taught to them as fact (hell, we even need to do this with out schools and teachers, too).

[HYHYBT]

Warning: rambling, possibly-nonsensical post ahead:

draggar: That doesn't sound very Catholic; it's more like Jack Chick. Which, of course, is about as far as you can go on the anti-catholic side... Hm. A lot of anti-Catholicism comes from Protestant Christianity, most of which isn't really as different in beliefs as they like to think, even if the organization is run differently. Which gets me wondering how much of it, in this country at least, is (and has been; this is hardly new) anti-immigrant. But that's just guesswork, and of course a lot of it comes from the more militant atheists. There are those who have been hurt by the church (not necessarily that one, but on grounds that would apply either way) and those who think anyone who does not believe (or disbelieve, for those who insist that that is not a form of belief, though it behaves exactly like one) exactly as they do is a complete idiot, and that it's their job to point that out at every opportunity.

And that last phrase is going to be the root of the matter: some people are jerks Some of them even believe it's somehow their DUTY to be jerks. In case any are listening: it's not!

There is, in fact, quite a lot I don't like about the Roman Catholic Church. But almost none of it has to do with the people in it,* who, judging by the ones I've met, are at least as friendly, honest, intelligent, etc as anyone else. I will argue some points and ask questions about others if there's a conversation going where that would be appropriate, but otherwise, you have the same rights to your beliefs as I have to mine, and there's no reason to suppose you haven't thought them through. Nor is it any of my business. Nor would it be right to try to start up a fight over your religion regardless, nor to be rude to anyone without good reason, etc.

*I had tried to explain this further, but it kept coming out as exactly the sort of rant that Ree is complaining about in the first place, so it's gone.

EDIT EDIT EDIT!! Rereading Ree's post, it *wasn't* "coming out as exactly the sort of rant [she] is complaining about. It was only the part about telling what's wrong with a religion, and not the ridiculing its adherents bit. Have to clear that up.

[jackfaire]

Warning: rambling, possibly-nonsensical post ahead:

draggar: That doesn't sound very Catholic; it's more like Jack Chick..

Actually I have heard those same views from catholics who attend catholic church .

[draggar]

Warning: rambling, possibly-nonsensical post ahead:

draggar: That doesn't sound very Catholic; it's more like Jack Chick. Which, of course, is about as far as you can go on the anti-catholic side...

The statements about D&D and Pagans were both said to me, more than once, by the "teachers" of CCD (like Sunday school for older children until conformation) as well as the congregation leaders (priests).

I didn't know much about Paganism at the time so I left that one out but I almost got kicked out of the class for arguing over Dungeons and Dragons since I've been playing that game almost my entire life (my cousin got me into it when I was 5). While the game does give you an opportunity to play an evil character, no other game promotes math skills, negotiations / diplomacy, problem solving, and even history.

Yet Monopoly is OK, gee, what's the point of that game? Make everyone else homeless. that's a nice lesson to teach even though the church had that game for children to play. Let's teach them about greed (isn't that one of the seven deadly sins - sounds rather hypocritical to me).

Chess is widely approves as an OK game yet it is a war simulation and the point is to kill off the entire other side (well, kill the king at least).

There is, in fact, quite a lot I don't like about the Roman Catholic Church. But almost none of it has to do with the people in it,* who, judging by the ones I've met, are at least as friendly, honest, intelligent, etc as anyone else. I will argue some points and ask questions about others if there's a conversation going where that would be appropriate, but otherwise, you have the same rights to your beliefs as I have to mine, and there's no reason to suppose you haven't thought them through. Nor is it any of my business. Nor would it be right to try to start up a fight over your religion regardless, nor to be rude to anyone without good reason, etc.

*I had tried to explain this further, but it kept coming out as exactly the sort of rant that Ree is complaining about in the first place, so it's gone.

We as humans have the power to question yet many people don't - with many things they should. Religion, politics, education. If we didn't question we'd still be in the stone age (questioning what is believed to be fact is one of the main drivers of science and research).

Many people take what they were taught and take it as fact. Take in what we're taught but if it doesn't seem right - QUESTION IT.

CH was very accurate when he said that history was written by the victors but it is also written by the interpretation of the writer. Today it is easy when anyone with internet access can be a reporter (like what we're seeing coming out of Haiti now) so inconsistencies can be caught but from over 1000 years ago when a lot of people didn't write it was easy for the reporter to "change" a few things to suit their own needs.

[Ree]

However I also told her that I have no problem with her beliefs as long as they stay "her" beliefs.

Right...yet people constantly feel the need to bash and try to convert me from my misguided ways.

I don't believe I have ever attempted to convert a single soul to what I believe, other than having my daughter baptized into my church. I guided her as far as I could and left the choice to her.

[HYHYBT]

The statements about D&D and Pagans were both said to me, more than once, by the "teachers" of CCD (like Sunday school for older children until conformation) as well as the congregation leaders (priests).

I admit to never having been in a confirmation class, splitting time between Mom's Baptist church and Dad's Presbyterian one at the age it's usually done. I've never even attended a Catholic service.

And if anything I've ever said on either of these sites has been hurtful to anyone, I apologize and it wasn't meant that way.

[Ghel]

I think it's a completely different thing to bash someone for their beliefs in a public or work setting than to come to a place, such as this one, where controversial topics are discussed and debated. In the former, it behooves us all to be polite and try to get along. In the latter, however, we come willingly into the discussion knowing that our viewpoints will be poked and prodded, tested for chinks, inconsistencies, and so forth. Despite the anonymity of the internet, it helps to keep a thick skin if you want to enter into these kinds of discussions.

I also agree that it's not fair to bash someone based solely on their religion, especially considering that most people are born into their religion. They have little choice in the matter, at least as children, and many people never question their beliefs their whole lives. I suppose that's where the term "sheeple" comes from, but I think it has less to do with intelligence, and more to do with complacency.

Lastly, I wish to reiterate what several people have already mention on this thread. Religions try to interefere in government workings, even here in the US where there is a Constitutionally mandated division between the two. Any time a church tries to enforce their views on the rest of the population, they are opening themselves up for criticism.

[Ree]

And if anything I've ever said on either of these sites has been hurtful to anyone, I apologize and it wasn't meant that way.

Actually, you are among the very few whom I have found to actually be respectful to my beliefs, and who is able to distinguish and separate his own ideals from those of others.