Deconstructing god, and why I don't believe

[Hobbs]

No, but a table is not God...did not breath life into me, nor create Heaven and Earth.

I didn't say He was your God. I said why it is right to praise Him.

[Gravekeeper]

No, but a table is not God...did not breath life into me, nor create Heaven and Earth.

I didn't say He was your God. I said why it is right to praise Him.

Ehhh...technically you did say "our", even if it was a title.

That's kind of the problem with western religions. There's a very "He's your God too you just don't know it yet" vibe. The automatic disqualification rule. If you do not believe in my god, then my god will damn you according to the parameters of my religion even though you don't believe in it. Just because I am right, everyone else is wrong. The truth is singular.

Yeeaaah, no.

Different people in different places and different situations will develop different perspectives and will have different spiritual needs. This is why we have multiple religions. Everyone needs something different to fill that gap in themselves, even if that something is not a religion or belief system.

If there was seriously only one right answer, there would only be one religion ( or one science if you wish ).

If you believe there is a being out there that is intelligent enough, powerful enough and compassionate enough to create a universe and fill it full of life.....do you seriously think he/she/it is petty, selfish and arrogant enough to give a shit whether mere mortals become his cheerleaders and stroke his/her/it's ego?

[Hobbs]

Your first argument isn't what I meant at all. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. All I meant by it is that He is "our" God in the sense that this is the way it is taught...

From the Catechism:
The imputability of this offense[athiesm] can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances. "Believers can have more than a little to do with the rise of atheism. To the extent that they are careless about their instruction in the faith, or present its teaching falsely, or even fail in their religious, moral, or social life, they must be said to conceal rather than to reveal the true nature of God and of religion.

[Ghel]

Hobbs, what is your purpose in this discussion? You have made assertions about miracles and your God, but you haven't given any evidence to back up those assertions.

You have (what I consider to be) a bad habit of using quotes instead of your own words. What I would like to know (and I expect everyone else would, too) is what you believe. How do you define God? What reason do you have to believe your God exists? What makes your God worthy of worship and/or praise? And why should anybody else agree?

Please don't skip any steps. For example, it makes no sense to expect anyone to agree with you about your God if we have not established what "God" is and whether "God" exists.

[Hobbs]

You know what, I'm just gonna stop.

I was using the above quote to explain the stance on athiesm. It's from the Catholic Catechism, meaning it's what I believe. It's called reference, and if you wrote any papers in college, you'd know what that is. If you seriously have no concept of the Christian God, then how can I have a decent conversation with you?

[Lace Neil Singer]

I'm sorry, but I don't have any belief in god, and there isn't anything you can say or do to make that not so. I stopped believing in god, just as I stopped believing in the tooth fairy, or Santa Clause. *shrugs*

However, somehow, I manage to stay friends with my deeply religious brother, sister in law, father and mother? How can that be? Why, I do believe, it's cuz they are tolerant of my views and don't try to force their beliefs down my throat. It's not a hard concept; sadly it's something that a lot of religious people find hard to grasp. I've encountered a lot of people who really need to obey their own book; in other words, "Judge not lest ye be judged."

I don't believe in god. However, I will not bash anyone who does, or mock their religion, or say that they're stupid for believing in god. If I do this, how can I expect them to give me the same respect back?

[Ghel]

It's called reference, and if you wrote any papers in college, you'd know what that is.

I understand that the source of the reference is supposed to be cited. This latest quote is the only one you've made that has any indication of where it's from, and it's a poor indication at that.

If you seriously have no concept of the Christian God, then how can I have a decent conversation with you?

I've heard so many different explanations of God, even from people who follow the same denomination, that I'm never sure what a person means when they say "God" unless I ask. The things you've said have either been extremely vague or they've been quotes. How am I supposed to know what you really believe?

I don't believe in god. However, I will not bash anyone who does, or mock their religion, or say that they're stupid for believing in god. If I do this, how can I expect them to give me the same respect back?

I like to differentiate between bashing the person and bashing the religion. I realize that for some people, their religion is do deeply ingrained in them that when I criticize their religious beliefs it seems like I'm criticizing them. But I'm not - I'm criticizing the the idea, not the individual.

Of course, with Hobbs, I never figured out what his idea was.

[Lace Neil Singer]

And therein lies the problem, really.

Btw, it wasn't directed at you, as such; just that I'd had a spat with someone on another board on the same topic, and it really ticked me off how a lot of these people seem to demand respect for their beliefs and yet not give it back. -.-

[Gravekeeper]

Your first argument isn't what I meant at all. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. All I meant by it is that He is "our" God in the sense that this is the way it is taught...

I was just pointing out why Lace might have taken it as such. Though "the way it is taught" kind of supports my argument, even though it was meant to be general and not about you or your religion specifically.

it really ticked me off how a lot of these people seem to demand respect for their beliefs and yet not give it back.

Sadly, this is a feature of western religions encountered far too often lately. Especially in the US.

[Talon]

...and it really ticked me off how a lot of these people seem to demand respect for their beliefs and yet not give it back. -.-

Sadly, this is a feature of western religions encountered far too often lately. Especially in the US.

Don't forget Islam. It's not just western religions.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Only major religion pops into my head what doesn't seem to have a 'hate the others' default mantra is Buddhism... 'cuz they're about as understanding, accepting, and all-around nice as it's practically possible to expect from a group of people, anywhere...

[Hobbs]

Don't forget Islam. It's not just western religions.

Islam is a Western religion because it's an off-shoot of the Judeo-Christian tradition.

[Rapscallion]

Um, from my perspective christianity is a judaic splinter, and that's definitely from the east. Jesus was a jew and all that.

I've heard some scholars refer to all three of those as the Abrahamic religions - same sort of root, and heavy similarities, but some differences.

Rapscallion

[Hobbs]

They're still considered Western religions. Eastern religions come from the Far East, mainland Asia etc.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Except that it's most practiced in the Middle East, about as not-western an area as it's possible to get in this day and age. If everything they are is good to them, and everything else is bad, that means that either A: Their religion is bad because it's western or B: shared roots are less important than affiliation with the west as it's defined to day.

Now we get to have Western, Eastern and Middle Eastern religions. Adding categories is fun...