Pet Heaven

[Ladeeda]

I really don't have any ideas on what there is after death if anything (figure I'll find out when I get there).

But if there IS some sort of Heaven or Nirvana or Paradise, I can't conceive any reason animals wouldn't go there. Anyone with a pet can tell you animals have personalities. They have quirks, and even food preferences if given a selection of foods. That's...pretty much what a soul is, IMO. A mind with opinions.

If my cat can decide he prefers chasing lizards to cat toys, he's got a soul as much as I do.

[Kheldarson]

I know that the Church's position is along the lines of Aristotle's interpretation of the soul. But I don't like that.

I want my pets with me. And I can't imagine God not wanting all his creatures with him.

[ExRetailDrone]

I believe in reincarnation, and I would like to think that my beloved, late pets are currently enjoying a new body to frolic in. It may not be the type of being's body their souls inhabited when I knew them, but I hope that they are happy.

[infinitemonkies]

I think you should watch the brilliant and beautiful Hayao Miyazaki film "The Cat Returns."

[BigGiant]

Um:

You're better off realizing that this is the only chance at life that Fluffy has (or you, for that matter). Cherish the fond memories, because in the end, that's all you have.

Although I agree that there isn't an afterlife, why would you say folks are better off for realizing it? If anything, belief in an afterlife does comfort folks and make them feel better. And in all truth, I don't think it has any bearing on how happy folks are in the here and now. Folks certainly "cherish the fond memories" as evidenced by their grief and pain at the loss of a loved one (be it human or animal).

There's also a certain amount to be said for the hope that a "heavenly" afterlife provides.

As for the topic at hand. I don't understand why, if one believes that a human has an eternal soul, that one wouldn't believe that every living thing has an eternal soul.

I guess some would argue that we're self aware....but we aren't the only self aware animals on the planet. Elephants, Dolphins (I believe), and many primates have been shown to have an awareness of self.

Anyway, that's my $.02

[Hobbs]

I'm always reminded of this episode of the Twilight Zone when the idea of pets and Heaven is brought up.

[Ladeeda]

I'm always reminded of this episode of the Twilight Zone when the idea of pets and Heaven is brought up.

I think Rod Sterling and his writers had very practical ideas re: the afterlife. None of the Pearly Gates/wings clouds and harps nonsense that would make for a very dull eternity.

[protege]

McGriff is still hanging around the apartment, I found cat hair yesterday on a rug that I know I vacummed.

I think my white kitty (Snow) is still in the house somewhere. For a bit after she died, I could swear I'd see something white running around the house. Then there were some strange scratching noises in 'her' corner of my office. She'd knead the carpet, and sometimes rub against the computer before curling up to sleep. She's probably still here...just to mess with the current kitties. Keep in mind that this was a cat who would actually *close* the heating vents in the living room, and would sometimes move her food dish in the kitchen Who knows, my first one, Kitty, is probably still here as well. But, since he didn't actually die in the house (whereas Snow died of a heart attack in the kitchen) I'm not sure.

I have the remains of both of my cats. They're safely tucked away in my living room. Both were always curled up somewhere in there--either the chair, or on the couch. Neither cat had been outside. Snow was deaf, so to let her outside would have been signing her death warrant. Kitty, on the other hand, was originally an outside cat...but once at my house, was terrified of being outside. Too many big dogs, strange cars, and strange people around. With that said, to spread their ashes out in the yard, would amount to torture!

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't like the idea of my cats being in eternal pain because they *might* not have a soul. That's not a chance I'm willing to take.

[Kheldarson]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't like the idea of my cats being in eternal pain because they *might* not have a soul. That's not a chance I'm willing to take.

To play devil's advocate, cause I still don't know why animals couldn't go to Heaven if God wanted them to, the Church picked up the idea from Aristotle. Aristotle taught that there were three (four? I'm only remembering three at the moment) types of souls. Animals and humans have the top two, material and Logos. Each type of soul builds off the previous. So animals have a material soul, as do humans, but we also have Logos, the self-realization and reasoning. Those beings with anything less than Logos just cease to exist at death. So, no eternal torment just...non being.

Hence why I don't know why God couldn't allow pets up with Him. Doesn't make sense to me for Him not to.

[Scamper]

This solves the debate: http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_may20...SignDebate.htm

Lol.

Personally, I believe in reincarnation. Your pet lives on. As do you.

[Ipecac Drano]

To all of those who have lost pets, my heart goes out to you as I love cats. Even though I am an atheist, I will play "God's Advocate" and give you the answer as it appears in the Good Book.

According to the Bible, one must accept Jesus as their personal savior if they are to make it Up There. The Bible predicts that most people will not make it to Heaven. Since animals do not believe in God or Jesus, it's pretty much a slam dunk that they aren't going there, either.

[IDrinkaRum]

^Yes, but didn't Jesus also say that there are many rooms in his "father's mansion" and there are "many paths" to get to his father's mansion? And that he was helping to pave only one path to get there?

That, to me, means that no matter what, you can/will end up in Heaven, therefore, animals can make it to Heaven, they just won't get there the same way as Christians.

[Ipecac Drano]

^Yes, but didn't Jesus also say that there are many rooms in his "father's mansion" and there are "many paths" to get to his father's mansion? And that he was helping to pave only one path to get there?

As mentioned before, he had said the contrary so...

That, to me, means that no matter what, you can/will end up in Heaven, therefore, animals can make it to Heaven, they just won't get there the same way as Christians.

...why does that take priority over the other thing? Plus, even if it had, it doesn't mean that animals are going to make it to Heaven. That's called "taking a leap".

[HYHYBT]

To all of those who have lost pets, my heart goes out to you as I love cats. Even though I am an atheist, I will play "God's Advocate" and give you the answer as it appears in the Good Book.

According to the Bible, one must accept Jesus as their personal savior if they are to make it Up There. The Bible predicts that most people will not make it to Heaven. Since animals do not believe in God or Jesus, it's pretty much a slam dunk that they aren't going there, either.

No. According to the bible, WE must accept Jesus. Nowhere does it address non-human salvation, or even whether dogs, etc are fallen.

[Ipecac Drano]

No. According to the bible, WE must accept Jesus. Nowhere does it address non-human salvation, or even whether dogs, etc are fallen.

I know it doesn't come right out and say that animals are fallen, but if they won't accept Jesus logic dictates they ain't goin' Up There.