Mosque near Ground Zero

[bunnyboy]

A number of reasons why the whole battle is a waste of time.

A) Not a mosque. It's going to be a cultural center. HUGE difference.

B) The reason for the specific location is because it's formerly the Bloomington Coat Factory, and no one else has made a bid for the building since they closed it down.

C) As already stated, it's going to replace another cultural center that has been only two blocks further away from Ground Zero and has been there for 40 years, predating the WTC itself.

D) A huge number of small business owners and street vendors around Ground Zero are Muslim. They were there before the attacks, helped out during the attacks, and were amongst the first to return after the attacks.

And on D) you forgot, some are even the still surviving victims of the attacks. (Lord knows how long it'll take for them to die, took the first post WTC WTC-Related death nearly 8 years to finally die IIRC.)

[protege]

Like it or not, the extremists involved with 9/11 *were* Muslim. Granted, their views were seriously fucked up, but still. They were responsible for the worst act of terrorism in the US. Hell, I *knew* people who were killed on 9/11--one of the planes landed in their office during their daily morning meeting. They were all killed instantly Even so, I'm a bit reluctant to label *all* Muslims as "terrorists." They should be allowed to practice their religion like everyone else.

However, Ground Zero is seen as hallowed ground by many people. Not just because of the thousands who were killed, but because WTC was a symbol of American economic might, as well as pride. To them, they see the installation of an Islamic center...as a huge slap in the face towards those who died. The ultimate "fuck you," in other words.

But, what I'd like to know is...just *why* does the center have to be where it is? I mean, NYC is a huge city--I'm sure they could find another building further away. I'm not saying that the center should be moved. But, think about this--if it is built on the proposed site, I have a feeling that the building is going to be a target. A target of possible vandalism or even arson.

Oh, and it's not just NYC that has had controversy over proposed Islamic centers. How do I know this? Well, a few years back, the Broughton Fire Hall building was put up for sale not long after 9/11. At the time, it was proposed to turn that into an Islamic center. Keep in mind that the area (which isn't far from me) does not have a large Muslim population. As such, many people were uneasy about those plans...and forced the borough to reconsider.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

But, what I'd like to know is...just *why* does the center have to be where it is? I mean, NYC is a huge city--I'm sure they could find another building further away. I'm not saying that the center should be moved. But, think about this--if it is built on the proposed site, I have a feeling that the building is going to be a target. A target of possible vandalism or even arson.

Just speculating here but could it possibly be due to the insane prices for real estate in Manhattan?

[Hobbs]

The ultimate "fuck you," in other words.

No, the ultimate f-you to those who died is to deny the freedoms that their deaths represented.

I would like to borrow some words spoken at a similarly hallowed site:

[Eleven score and 14 years ago] our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great...war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.

It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced... that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

-Abraham Lincoln, 19 November 1863

[radiocerk]

Yes, the 9-11 terrorists were Muslim. So? The importance of "equal protection under the law" never seems to actually matter until it is supporting or protecting something you don't like.

I support the right of white supremacists to spew their garbage verbally because I believe in free speech. I roll my eyes and ignore the Westboro Baptist Church; the right to protest, peacefully, is important in this country. I'll even put up with Scientology in support of freedom of religion. My support of their rights keeps mine non-infringed.

Anyways, how many of the mass-murderers, of the school shooters, of the child-abusers and pedophiles are Christian? Should I be painting them all with the same brush? If all Muslims must eternally be held responsible for 9-11, why shouldn't all Catholics be kept away from all children, just in case? Accuse all Mormons of polygamy and pedophilia? Why not?

What difference does it make where this Islamic center goes. The World Trade center was a tragic event, but life goes on. And until people stop letting it pull their irrationality strings, nothing is going to get better.

[KnitShoni]

However, Ground Zero is seen as hallowed ground by many people. Not just because of the thousands who were killed, but because WTC was a symbol of American economic might, as well as pride. To them, they see the installation of an Islamic center...as a huge slap in the face towards those who died. The ultimate "fuck you," in other words.

Even the Muslims? I mean, some of the Americans who died that day were Muslim. Is it a slap in the face to them, too?

[Arcade Man D]

But, what I'd like to know is...just *why* does the center have to be where it is? I mean, NYC is a huge city--I'm sure they could find another building further away.

Because the group that wants to build this center owns that particular piece of property, not some piece of property further away.

[protege]

Even the Muslims? I mean, some of the Americans who died that day were Muslim. Is it a slap in the face to them, too?

I never said that I agreed with their line of thinking. I think it's pretty fucked up. Unfortunately, many Americans seem to forget that it wasn't just your average WASP that was blown to bits on 9/11. I know there were other groups who were killed.

However, quite a few people are pissed about the center. According to a poll I saw on CNN last night, roughly 68% of Americans do not want that center near the former WTC site. They all seem to think that Islamic center = terrorist training ground. We all know that's not the case.

But, I just have to ask...if the center is going to cause that much trouble, why doesn't the group sell the building, and buy property somewhere else in the city?

[Hobbs]

But, I just have to ask...if the center is going to cause that much trouble, why doesn't the group sell the building, and buy property somewhere else in the city?

Because the group isn't the one causing trouble. The 68% of ignorant, jack-ass Americans are.

[Arcade Man D]

But, I just have to ask...if the center is going to cause that much trouble, why doesn't the group sell the building, and buy property somewhere else in the city?

Because, let's be honest with ourselves here, they'd throw the same shitfest even if they wanted to build it on Long Island. Or hell, even in Syracuse.

[daleduke17]

Because, let's be honest with ourselves here, they'd throw the same shitfest even if they wanted to build it on Long Island. Or hell, even in Syracuse.

Probably not.

[KnitShoni]

Probably not.

Considering the trouble Muslims are having trying to build in places not even in New York state, I'd have to say that's a definite possibility.

[smileyeagle1021]

Considering the trouble Muslims are having trying to build in places not even in New York state, I'd have to say that's a definite possibility.

They could go all the way to Arizona and still have troubles (residents of Pheonix have vehemontly opposed both a Mosque and an LDS Temple... the LDS Temple granted was purely on aesthetic grounds, they were upset that it was going to be something like 30 feet taller than all the surrounding buildings in a suburban low rise neighborhood).

We have the exact same debate in Salt Lake every year about the placement of the gay pride festival (4 blocks from Temple Square). No matter how many times you explain to people that the location was chosen because it was the only centralized location large enough to handle the event, people will always accuse the LGBT community of trying to do it as a taunt to the church. While the proximity to the church does have the added benefit of sending the message that this is OUR city too, that is not the intent. If a comparable venue were available (close to public transportion that runs on sunday, ample parking nearby and large enough to hold the crowd) the organizers would move to a less hostile location... there is no comprable venue though.

I'm sure that this is the same thing with this Islamic center... yes it's location is controversial, but most likely they did not choose it for that reason (doesn't mean that they don't appreciate that side effect), they probably chose it for the logistics, not the sentiment.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Ok, let's say it was 19 Christian guys who crashed those planes.

Do you think there would still be as much anger if a Christian group wanted to build a church there? It's possible but I doubt it.

[KnitShoni]

Ok, let's say it was 19 Christian guys who crashed those planes.

Do you think there would still be as much anger if a Christian group wanted to build a church there? It's possible but I doubt it.

Of course not. People would be QUICK to point out they are extremists, so don't judge us all by their actions.