The Burning Holy Books Saga

[Kaylyn]

Just because something is legal, doesn't mean you should do it. Would you also support the WBC "Thank God for IED's at a soldier's funeral? Don't answer that...I think I know the answer.

I know this was directed at Ghel, but I've got my own opinion on this matter.

Yes, I support the WBC's right to carry such signage at soldiers' funerals. Even though they've protested the funeral of a family member who was a soldier with such signage. Do I agree with their views? Absolutely not. Does their behavior sicken and enrage me? Definitely. But I support their right to do it.

I support our right to burn flags, crosses, holy books, and protest in general. In fact, I thank the gods I was fortunate enough to be born in a country where such freedom of speech is allowed. It means that I'm allowed to have my own opinions, and I won't be executed because I dare to have opinions that differ from those in power.

Now, something such as the Klan burning a cross on an individual's property is another thing, as actual crimes are being committed, such as trespassing on their property and the fact that such an act is meant as a direct threat of further harm to the individual, thus constituting assault. But burning a Bible as a theological statement? Go for it.

"But, Kaylyn, you're not Christian! If it was your own faith, you'd feel differently!" Fine. Feel free to burn a pentagram (man, that would look pretty fucking cool, actually!), or a triquetra, or a statue of Bast, if you see fit, as those are all symbols that mean a great deal to me. In the immortal words of The Dude, "Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

One does not have to agree with the acts committed in a protest to agree with the right to participate in said protest, provided individuals are not harmed or assaulted.

[Hobbs]

Now, something such as the Klan burning a cross on an individual's property is another thing, as actual crimes are being committed, such as trespassing on their property and the fact that such an act is meant as a direct threat of further harm to the individual, thus constituting assault. But burning a Bible as a theological statement? Go for it.

Actually, the KKK burning a cross is constituted as a hate crime, as it is targeting an individual or a group of people for the sole purpose of soliciting a harmful response. The same goes for burning the Koran or the Bible; you're not doing it to "make a theological statement" but as a symbol of hate against the people who worship the religions that the books symbolize.

I once stated (not sure if it was here) that when I put on my uniform, that I want it to still stand for freedom. Well, I also want it to stand for justice; social as well as legal. A society based on diversity and inclusiveness shouldn't tolerate those who would hate members of that society based upon their race, creed, national origin, religion or sexual preference.

[draco664]

Who was it who said "I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it"?

[Rapscallion]

I think that was Voltaire. My version runs along the lines of I'll defend to your death your right to free speech...

Rapscallion

[crazylegs]

Muslims in Great Britian burn the American Flag to protest Terry Jones' "Burn a Koran Day"

At one point, they chant "Burn, Burn Freedom" and "Democracy Go To Hell"

These are not your run of the mill, moderate muslims.

They are extremists. In the same way that the book burning pastor is an extremist so is this very small group of men.

Muslims are a very protective group - they do whatever they can to protect their religion and the perception of their religion. In all likelyhood none of these angry young men attend a mosque where a properly trained religious leader actualy gives a sermon; it is far more likely that they merely meet in someone's front room and discuss their views.

You will notice that the AYM (angry young man) who speaks on the handheld microphone about 2 1/2 minutes in centres entirely on the deaths caused by coalition munitions. This is entirely typical of a person who is being radicalised - they fail to even acknowledge that the attacks and deaths caused by the taliban far outweigh the deaths caused by the coalition.

I've rambled, but what I'm trying to state is that these men do not represent the islamic faith any more than the pastor represents the christian faith.

[blas87]

Aww, looky here......France is trying to pass a law forbidding traditional Muslim attire.

Wow, really? Yeah. but I'm sure somehow America is still the big asshole of the world. We can ignore what France does. We must take down America because they are all stupid hate mongering fatsos!

[crazylegs]

Aww, looky here......France is trying to pass a law forbidding traditional Muslim attire.

Wow, really? Yeah. but I'm sure somehow America is still the big asshole of the world. We can ignore what France does. We must take down America because they are all stupid hate mongering fatsos!

Actually they're not.

The hijab isn't traditional muslim dress - it's traditional to some countries and cultures.

In fact some islamic contries have already banned it themselves.

[blas87]

There was a bomb thread called in to the Eifel Tower in anger about the ban.....that doesn't seem very tolerant of the ban.

[the_std]

There was a bomb thread called in to the Eifel Tower in anger about the ban.....that doesn't seem very tolerant of the ban.

Oh no. Extremists doing extreme things. But that doesn't represent the group has a whole.

[blas87]

Then I suggest people take back their statements of calling America a hate mongering country (as I read in another thread). There are some real duds out there, anywhere and everywhere. Just because there are some ignorant, closed minded yoohoos who go around threatening to do outlandish things if x doesn't happen or y happens, does not represent America in general.

[the_std]

It's true that those things do not represent America as a whole. But, and I say this as someone who does not live in the States, when the majority of what other nations see of your country is hate and anger and fear and all of these awful things that have been brought up here, how can they possibly know anything else? Your anger should not be directed at those people who see these things and call America hate-mongering. Your anger should be directed at the people in your own country who project this image to everyone else.

I see so little of America, Americans, and their achievements broadcast in a positive light. There are so few instances of good and nice and happy in the media when your country displays itself to other countries. It makes me sad, because I know that that can't possibly be the truth, cannot possible represent you, the average person in your country. But there is not very much available evidence to the contrary.

[KnitShoni]

I see so little of America, Americans, and their achievements broadcast in a positive light. There are so few instances of good and nice and happy in the media when your country displays itself to other countries. It makes me sad, because I know that that can't possibly be the truth, cannot possible represent you, the average person in your country. But there is not very much available evidence to the contrary.

That news doesn't sell.

[Greenday]

It's true that those things do not represent America as a whole. But, and I say this as someone who does not live in the States, when the majority of what other nations see of your country is hate and anger and fear and all of these awful things that have been brought up here, how can they possibly know anything else? Your anger should not be directed at those people who see these things and call America hate-mongering. Your anger should be directed at the people in your own country who project this image to everyone else.

I see so little of America, Americans, and their achievements broadcast in a positive light. There are so few instances of good and nice and happy in the media when your country displays itself to other countries. It makes me sad, because I know that that can't possibly be the truth, cannot possible represent you, the average person in your country. But there is not very much available evidence to the contrary.

Kinda like how when we see stuff about Canada, it's about hockey, snow, and people going there just to get prescription meds. Or how the UK wants to take everyone's rights away and leave them all defenseless. Etc. etc.

The loudest people are the ones who make the news and moderate people generally aren't loud because they aren't morons.

[the_std]

Kinda like how when we see stuff about Canada, it's about hockey, snow, and people going there just to get prescription meds.

We know that. I know how people perceive Canadians. But I don't complain because I know that people can see us however they want, but I'm not going to complain as I won't let them affect my quality of life. If the public perception of my country gets negative enough to the point where other countries start using it as justification to do angry, hurtful things to us, then I am definitely going to actively find a way to change that public perception of my country.

[blas87]

Why is it ok to bash Americans and paint them all the same because you never "hear" of anything good about America, but never ok to pick on any other country? I could say Canadians and Europeans and Australians are all a bunch of anti-American high and mighty hoity toities with their heads shoved up their asses, but that's not correct, just as it's incorrect to say all Americans are fat lazy stupid hateful slobs. Having said that, I also don't always hear about positive things in other countries as well. This whole world is a damn hell hole. America is far from perfect as is everywhere else.

I often wonder why America even helps anyone anymore, and that goes far back. If we knew back then that every other country would try to make us all out to be stupid and hate mongering assholes, perhaps we shouldn't have helped anyone out in any wars and just defended ourselves and ourselves alone. It's not like anyone helps us in natural disasters or attacks on America, unless they just want us on their side because they know we can help them win their own fights.

I agree that America has been nosy and interfering with a lot of things throughout the years, but the times that it has benefited other countries, a little more thanks and a little less stereotyping would be appreciated. If Americans gave their lives to save your country's ass, you should be a little more appreciative that these stupid fat hateful slobs helped you.