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[Ipecac Drano]

No we don't. I've decorated my apartment once in the three years I've lived there. For Halloween, not Christmas.

Really?

I suspect that the vast majority of people who decorate do so because it's an excuse to dress up their living space more than any actual religious observance.

Well, I was thinking more of those who shun the Santas and go for the Jesuses.

Funny, I'm a christian but I need none of those things.

How do you proselytize?

Perhaps you meant to say SOME christians need these things?

Why, yes!

I'm sure you didn't mean to generalize, right?

Heavens to Betsy, no!

[Andara Bledin]

Really?

Is there something particularly difficult in believing that I'm not making things up for the sake of contradicting you?

^-.-^

[Ipecac Drano]

Is there something particularly difficult in believing that I'm not making things up for the sake of contradicting you?

Is there a possibility of that?

[Andara Bledin]

Is there a possibility of that?

No, there isn't.

Honesty is more important to me than being right or some debate victory.

However, you didn't answer my question. Against I ask, is there something particularly difficult in believing that I'm not making things up for the sake of contradicting you?

^-.-^

[Ipecac Drano]

No, there isn't.

Honesty is more important to me than being right or some debate victory.

Actually, there is that possibility.

However, you didn't answer my question. Against I ask, is there something particularly difficult in believing that I'm not making things up for the sake of contradicting you?

Not really, but the possibility is there.

[protege]

My mother once said, that because I'm not religious (was raised Catholic, but no longer practice), I don't have the right to celebrate Christmas. Her idea of celebrating, was to drag everyone to church...to hear the exact same sermon as last year, and the 20 years before that.

Sorry if I don't agree with that. For me, it was always about spending time with family, driving to the farm, having dinner with Grandma, etc. Sadly, we can no longer have dinner with her

[Ipecac Drano]

My mother once said, that because I'm not religious (was raised Catholic, but no longer practice), I don't have the right to celebrate Christmas. Her idea of celebrating, was to drag everyone to church...to hear the exact same sermon as last year, and the 20 years before that.

Sorry if I don't agree with that. For me, it was always about spending time with family, driving to the farm, having dinner with Grandma, etc. Sadly, we can no longer have dinner with her

How does Grandma feel about this?

[Peppergirl]

How does Grandma feel about this?

His grandmother passed away somewhat recently.

[crashhelmet]

Andara, give up. Ipecac and Ghel are in these religion threads to do nothing but troll those of us that believe. They will demand proof from you but never give their own. It's best to ignore them as much as possible.

[Ipecac Drano]

His grandmother passed away somewhat recently.

I'm sorry; I wasn't aware of that.

Andara, give up. Ipecac and Ghel are in these religion threads to do nothing but troll those of us that believe. They will demand proof from you but never give their own. It's best to ignore them as much as possible.

Crash, why do you feel that it's up to others to debunk your assertions? Oh, right: you can't back up what you say so you have to shift the burden of proof to the other party.

[smileyeagle1021]

Andara, give up. Ipecac and Ghel are in these religion threads to do nothing but troll those of us that believe. They will demand proof from you but never give their own. It's best to ignore them as much as possible.

You may be surprised to hear me say that I actually agree with you. I don't believe in religion and don't have very fond feelings towards religion, but I at least recognize that I will never convince everyone of my views and that I shouldn't try.
If religion brings someone joy, and they aren't using it as an excuse to hurt me, then all the more power to them. I personally don't understand how religion brings people as much joy as it does, but then again a lot of people don't understand how I can enjoy SimCity and consider taxes exciting* (not even my fiance understands that part). We each have our own ways of doing things, and for many of us, no level of arguing on a debate site is going to change that.

*I am of course refering to the law and theory behind taxes, not the actual paying of them.

[Ipecac Drano]

You may be surprised to hear me say that I actually agree with you. I don't believe in religion and don't have very found feelings towards religion, but I at least recognize that I will never convince everyone of my views and that I shouldn't try.

I'm not trying to do that; I'm trying to find evidence of a supreme being and they aren't coming forward with it. I ask for answers and they either feign being offended, come up with something that isn't evident, use logical fallacies or all of the above.

If a person says that there is a God, why can't they tell me how there is one instead of dancing around it or telling me that I have to believe? Belief is not proof of anything.

There are many great things to pretend, but why believe in something just to believe in it?

[smileyeagle1021]

-snip- Belief is not proof of anything.

-snip- but why believe in something just to believe in it?

On that same note, I believe that my fiance loves me... there is no way to scientifically prove that fact, but I still believe it to be true. I believe that I love him, I couldn't prove it if I was required to (at least not up to "scientific" standards). Science has been yet to prove why we feel any emotional attachment to others, it does not serve a very useful purpose in reproducing, becoming attached to just one person (much less one of the same sex), yet no one would deny that it happens.

Belief may not make something real, but lack of evidence does not make is false either.

[Ipecac Drano]

On that same note, I believe that my fiance loves me... there is no way to scientifically prove that fact, but I still believe it to be true.

You don't need science to prove that...

I believe that I love him, I couldn't prove it if I was required to (at least not up to "scientific" standards). Science has been yet to prove why we feel any emotional attachment to others, it does not serve a very useful purpose in reproducing, becoming attached to just one person (much less one of the same sex), yet no one would deny that it happens.

Trying to confuse feelings with facts doesn't work.

Belief may not make something real, but lack of evidence does not make is false either.

When there is equal evidence for or against something, you wait until evidence tips the scale toward proving the existence of that something. My stance is not that there isn't a God, it's that there is no evidence thereof. Hence, I am neutral and not anti.

(Of course, there are some people who can't fathom this notion and have to accuse me of the latter.)

[crashhelmet]

You may be surprised to hear me say that I actually agree with you. I don't believe in religion and don't have very found feelings towards religion, but I at least recognize that I will never convince everyone of my views and that I shouldn't try.
If religion brings someone joy, and they aren't using it as an excuse to hurt me, then all the more power to them. I personally don't understand how religion brings people as much joy as it does, but then again a lot of people don't understand how I can enjoy SimCity and consider taxes exciting* (not even my fiance understands that part). We each have our own ways of doing things, and for many of us, no level of arguing on a debate site is going to change that.

*I am of course refering to the law and theory behind taxes, not the actual paying of them.

Religion is something I was brought up in, lost , and then found again. Being Irish-Mexican, I was brought up in a stereotypical Catholic household. I have lived all over the world, seen how other cultures lived, and experienced their religions. Many of the world's religions have similarities to each other. For some of them, it's the changes made by man that separate them. Because of this, I don't believe in the idea of one true god. I believe there is only one god. Whether you call Him God, Allah, Jehovah, or Big Bird, I believe it is all the same Deity.

I have been through more than my fair share of trials and tribulations. I have been through completely life altering situations that are solely responsible for who I am and where I am today. I can not attribute it to luck and I don't believe that destiny or fate can exist without a controlling factor. For me, all evidence points to whatever God's plan for me is.

If I hadn't shattered my ankle in high school, I would've followed my family tradition and life long dream of making a career out of the military. Instead, I was forced to fall back on a hobby and passion I had for music and goto school to be a music teacher. 2 years after I graduated college, I couldn't afford to live as a teacher and had to change careers into IT.

Why IT? I was working a second job as a cook and the service department manager of a local electronics chain came into my restaurant at the same time I was changing out the printer paper in a register. That very day he had to fire 4 people for theft and needed to replace them. He taught me everything I didn't know and 14 years later, here I am still in IT, making far more than I'd be making as a teacher.

My career in IT resulted in me befriending a man that would go on to be my best friend and naming me the Godfather of his 3 daughters. My career in IT brought me here to Nevada where I would go on to meet the bitch that would give birth to my son. If I had enlisted in the military or even earned the Commission to Annapolis that I was working for, I could be dead right now or another of the disabled vets trying to piece his life back together. I could be just another statistic in the War on Terror. Then again, I could be leading a successful and highly decorated career. I would not trade my son or the people I've met for what could have been.

Science cannot explain my life. Religion can. That is why I believe.