UV Stout 1, WBC 0

[ArenaBoy]

Perhaps I should not have used the term "non-newsworthy". Let's just say that I strongly suspect that the WBC would have dropped this crap long ago if it weren't for the media orgy.

There you go. If you were trying to state that, I apologize.

Calling it non-newsworthy though is a stretch.

[blas87]

OP, did you mean UW Stout?

We Wisconsinites are very proud people. I would have never imagined that Phelps and Fuckers would even have any desire to travel to this little stick in the mud Bum Egypt part of Wisconsin, but I guess if you hate people that much, anything is possible.

Let this be a lesson, WBC....come back to Wisconsin, and UW Stout will seem like a cakewalk. Don't come back.

[Sylvia727]

But why the hell is CNN there with cameras every time half a dozen nutjobs show up with signs? And why the hell are people watching it?

I can see both sides of this issue. On the one hand, citizens have an interest in knowing that hate-mongers are out there and what their targets are. Giving the media the benefit of the doubt, and assuming they're aiming for news, not sensationalism, they do have a responsibility to report the news. On the other, the media is feeding into the hate. Don't they have a responsibility to limit the consequences/damages of their actions?

I think there should be some sort of legal consequences. Surely this falls under harassment or hate crime?

[Boozy]

I think its important that I add: I don't like turning everything into a consumer issue. For example, Nike is still at fault for their child labour practices, regardless of how many people buy their shoes.

But media consumption is different. The whole story is right in front of you. No one watching sensationalist crap can claim that they didn't know it was sensational. That's why they are watching.

To me, cause-and-effect here is clear: The WBC does what they do because of the media coverage. The media covers the story because we will watch. The buck stops in our living rooms.

This does not absolve the WBC of their hideous actions. But I do believe that it would be more effective to shut off our TVs than to get into a crowd and blow smoke, thereby adding to the media circus.

[Sylvia727]

To me, cause-and-effect here is clear: The WBC does what they do because of the media coverage. The media covers the story because we will watch. The buck stops in our living rooms.

Do they do for the media coverage? Or do they do it because they are hateful, malicious bastards, with the media strengthening their resolve? If the media simply stopped covering them, either of conscience or because citizens made it unprofitable, I think the WBC would continue what they are doing. They're fanatics, and cultists, and they think they have some moral imperative. I'm not sure they truly believe a god is behind them, but they do think they have some twisted authority. It's not moral, it's not religious...they're manipulating people's fears and hatreds for their own gain.

And yes, I've met people who believe that "God hates fags", even if of course picketing the funeral of the Satanic fatherfucker is "disrespectful". I don't even know where to start with that. They may not be gathering followers but a surprising number of people agree with their aims.

[AFPheonix]

I posted this in one of the last WBC threads. It bears repeating:
http://blank.org/addict/

[Slytovhand]

Hey Boozy darling....

yeah - it'd be lovely if the world worked to such ideals - but humans don't. That's probably why their here. Yes - we are in hell...

If a person's beliefs tell them that they need to save others, then they will go to any lenghts to do so (including torture and murder...I bet you weren't expecting the Spanish Inquisition...*). You may not like it, but it's what they think they have to do. For some reason, just 'saving' themselves isn't enough (which kind of makes sense, if you happen to believe something similar - that after death, there is only 2 options...).

The same laws that allow freedom of sexuality also allow for freedom of speech, and thus, technically, the same system that opposes the damage and violence to gay people should also apply to the damage done to the WBC people's property.

Damn - 2 wrongs don't make a right....

You have a constitutionally enforced right to hate anyone you like (how's that for oxymoronic), and also to show it verbally and to protest.




*No - we will probably never get tired of using this line

[Boozy]

yeah - it'd be lovely if the world worked to such ideals - but humans don't.

What ideals?

I'm sorry - I don't know what you were responding to.

[Slytovhand]

What ideals?

I'm sorry - I don't know what you were responding to.

this:

What could be easier than ignoring something?

If only there were other world problems so easily solved.

(which is too short a message to post )

[Boozy]

I'm afraid I still don't know what you are trying to say.

But I will clarify the point of mine you quoted in case it was misunderstood: Ignoring the WBC would go a long way to discourage their constant picketing, as they would no longer be receiving any media attention for it.

Because ignoring a problem is easy to do, it would be nice if other world problems would benefit from the same tactic. Unfortunately, issues such as poverty, climate change, and human rights requires a lot of action and hard work.

Incidentally, perhaps these issues would see more media coverage if the networks weren't airing the views of a very small handful of nuts.

Edited to add: I think I see what you were driving at. You're saying that they'd be doing this no matter what. I agree they would to some extent, but I don't see them showing up at so many high profile funerals if it weren't for the media circus.

[Slytovhand]

I'm afraid I still don't know what you are trying to say.

But I will clarify the point of mine you quoted in case it was misunderstood: Ignoring the WBC would go a long way to discourage their constant picketing, as they would no longer be receiving any media attention for it.

Because ignoring a problem is easy to do, it would be nice if other world problems would benefit from the same tactic. Unfortunately, issues such as poverty, climate change, and human rights requires a lot of action and hard work.

Damn right! Is there a fratch for this sort of thing?? I'm a member of a political group called GetUp here in Aus, which is technically non-party (though they have obvious leanings - they really wanted John Howard gone at the last election), and try to push for a lot of environmental and aboriginal issues. It's nice and easy - go to the home page, join up - get emails and occasionally respond by signing a petition. They get a stack of media coverage out of it (but not enough).

Incidentally, perhaps these issues would see more media coverage if the networks weren't airing the views of a very small handful of nuts.

Edited to add: I think I see what you were driving at. You're saying that they'd be doing this no matter what. I agree they would to some extent, but I don't see them showing up at so many high profile funerals if it weren't for the media circus.

Yep - that's what I was driving at. The problem is.. fundamentalists believe - and like Shepherd Book said (or paraphrased ) - belief can be a dangerous thing...


(please tell me you know Shepherd Book...... )

Slyt

[Seshat]

Damn right! Is there a fratch for this sort of thing??

For what sort of thing? Issues such as poverty, climate change, and so on?

If you want to talk about them, do a 'search' for existing threads on the topic, and if there aren't any, add them to the fratching forum closest to what you have in mind.

If you want to try to get specific action on them, this probably isn't the ideal place. It's an almost-random group of people from all over the world; rather than trying to encourage this group to take on a particular task, it's much easier to inform folks and encourage them to go find their local group for whatever issue.

[rahmota]

If you want to try to get specific action on them, this probably isn't the ideal place. It's an almost-random group of people from all over the world; rather than trying to encourage this group to take on a particular task, it's much easier to inform folks and encourage them to go find their local group for whatever issue.

Exactly and no offense intended but I doubt you could get everyone on this board to go marchign off in the same direction let alone for the same cause or reason. While we may all agree that poverty or human rights or whatever else is a good thing to fight for the way we'll choose to do it or what method to fight we would support is not gonna be the same. Maybe in the same zip code close but definately not closer than that for everyone.

[Amethyst Hunter]

Ignoring the WBC would go a long way to discourage their constant picketing, as they would no longer be receiving any media attention for it...I don't see them showing up at so many high profile funerals if it weren't for the media circus.

To some extent I might agree, at least in regards to the celebrity types like Heath Ledger; however, WBC - the adults, anyway - are comprised of bullies who, if they ARE ignored, will no doubt just try and muscle in on some attention anyway - most of their garbage has been directed at Joe and Jane Public, not famous people. And like I said, a lot of bullies will not stop slinging their crap unless they're made to stop. When people stand up and flat out tell them "Your shit is not welcome here, get lost or get your ass kicked", they get the message that their bile isn't going to be tolerated, and unless they're particularly stupid they may think twice about poking their noses in where they don't belong.

And speaking from a personal viewpoint, anyone that tried that shit at any family funeral of mine had BETTER bring their own shovels and be prepared to dig their own graves.

[XCashier]

WBC - the adults, anyway - are comprised of bullies who, if they ARE ignored, will no doubt just try and muscle in on some attention anyway - most of their garbage has been directed at Joe and Jane Public, not famous people. And like I said, a lot of bullies will not stop slinging their crap unless they're made to stop. When people stand up and flat out tell them "Your shit is not welcome here, get lost or get your ass kicked", they get the message that their bile isn't going to be tolerated, and unless they're particularly stupid they may think twice about poking their noses in where they don't belong.

Precisely. Which is why this student protest was so effective. It's sad to have to stoop to the WBC's level, but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

However, it may take quite a few times before the WBC gets the message, because they are "particularly stupid".