"Because God asks too much."

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

I was talking with a non Christian friend of mine about the faith and in particular why he has no interest in it. This was NOT an attempt to convert him on my part, it was just curiosity as I always have an interest in differing viewpoints.

He said he felt God asks too much.

As an example of this he used the following: Church every week, no sex outside of marriage, only heterosexuality permitted, spread the Gospel, tithe of 10% of your income, abortions prohibited and so forth.

Now, not all of these are a directly prohibited by the Bible, but they are generally accepted things most Christians do (or don't do). I explained to my friend that while God does ask a lot, you also must take into account the rewards promised. Repeatedly in the Bible, there are scriptures basically stating "If you are loyal to God in everything you do, He will bring good things your way" and beyond that, you are also guaranteed entrance into Heaven upon leaving this earth.

My friend replied that he was uncomfortable with the notion that everyone who was NOT Christian was condemned to burn in Hell for eternity, even otherwise good, moral, decent people.

I admit I didn't have much of a reply for him because honestly that's something I ponder heavily as well and it's also an issue debated in certain Christian circles as well.

My friend said he wanted as many freedoms in life as he could get and God just couldn't deliver that.

So the point of this thread is to ask you how you feel about my friends viewpoints. Is he right or not?

[Hyena Dandy]

I assume you mean "This was not an attempt"?

[Hyena Dandy]

I feel all God asks is love. The sex before marriage, no homosexuality, etc. are not the purpose. God asks us to love each-other, and Him. Those are the greatest commandments. God doesn't ask anything else.

If someone says that He does, they do not understand the spirit of Christianity.

[BlaqueKatt]

http://www.evilbible.com/why_i_am_not_a_christian.htm

So the point of this thread is to ask you how you feel about my friends viewpoints. Is he right or not?

does it matter?

for him it's the right decision, why do you care?

personally I don't have enough evidence that god(s) exist, so by following some very arbitrary rules penned down some 2000 years ago, I may easily miss out on some very important and fulfilling joys in my life.

Heck if I was a "true believer" I'd still be married to my first husband..well check that, he probably would have killed me by now. He used the bible to justify his abuse of me, and tried to use it to prevent my leaving him.

this is a decent essay on why some people don't believe-and it does cover some of your friends points.

and if you want some very well written and well thought out arguements for Atheism. Greta Christina's blog is a great source of reading, on the right she has a lost of her most popular archived Atheist blog articles, if you want to understand the Atheist viewpoint, it's a good starting point.

[Andara Bledin]

As an example of this he used the following: Church every week, no sex outside of marriage, only heterosexuality permitted, spread the Gospel, tithe of 10% of your income, abortions prohibited and so forth.

Huh. I must be the worst Christian ever.

It's not that God doesn't offer those freedoms - it's the Church that is the problem.

^-.-^

[Hyena Dandy]

Perhaps your friend is insisting on a literal interpretation of every word of the Bible.

A lot of people do that. Its easier to argue against a gospel of restrictions than one of love.

[Greenday]

I explained to my friend that while God does ask a lot, you also must take into account the rewards promised. Repeatedly in the Bible, there are scriptures basically stating "If you are loyal to God in everything you do, He will bring good things your way" and beyond that, you are also guaranteed entrance into Heaven upon leaving this earth.

My friend replied that he was uncomfortable with the notion that everyone who was NOT Christian was condemned to burn in Hell for eternity, even otherwise good, moral, decent people.

Pretty much this. Plus the fact that I see so much good happen to bad people and bad happen to good people that it tends to make God look full of it.

[HYHYBT]

Christianity isn't about rules. The rules your friend lists, and any number of others, are (vain) attempts to spell out in detail how people who really did love God above all else and who loved all people as much as themselves would behave, nothing more.

You've seen product warning labels. Some things are so covered with warnings that they almost become invisible again. MOST of them, along with such things as "dead man" switches, are an attempt to turn "be careful, pay attention, and don't do anything stupid" into a list of rules which, if followed to the letter, will keep you from harm. But many of them tell you *never* to do things which, under certain circumstances, are not only safe, but beneficial. And people following the rules to the letter still manage to injure themselves or others out of carelessness.

For example: for the last 20+ years, riding lawn mowers have been designed to shut off if the seat is unoccupied. This is great if you fall off, or if you forget the mower deck is running and step in the way of flying debris, etc... but have you ever had to jump-start one? It can't be done by one person. Either the battery is under the seat (in which case you can't sit on the mower while the jumper cables are connected, and therefore cannot start the engine) or it's under the hood (where you can't reach to disconnect the cables without getting up, causing it to shut off again.)

My friend replied that he was uncomfortable with the notion that everyone who was NOT Christian was condemned to burn in Hell for eternity, even otherwise good, moral, decent people.

Whether the idea's pleasant or not doesn't matter so much as whether you believe it to be true or false. If you believe it's true that anyone who is not Christian will spend eternity in Hell (and you believe Hell to be an unpleasant place) then to me it seems foolish not to be one. Not that all Christians believe that anyway... and on that, though I try not to quote C. S. Lewis, I cannot resist pasting in a favorite:

We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him. But in the meantime, if you are worried about the people outside, the most unreasonable thing you can do is remain outside yourself. Christians are Christ's body, the organism through which he works. Every addition to that body enables Him to do more. If you want to help those outside you must add your own little cell to the body of Christ who alone can help them. Cutting off a man's fingers would be an odd way of getting him to do more work.

[Ladeeda]

God never asked me for anything. Never had a chat with the dude himself.

But then, I don't inhale the smoke from a "burning bush", ifyaknowhatimean.

[BlaqueKatt]

God doesn't ask anything else.

If someone says that He does, they do not understand the spirit of Christianity.

wha? I'm confused

so the 10 commandments didn't come from god then?

and the entirety of leviticus was made up?(a lot of christians are going to be denied if they ate surf n' turf if that one turns out to be real, also see revelations that lists the number admitted to heaven as 144,000 only)

and then turns around and has his son(Jesus) tell people to break one of the major commandments(honor thy father and mother)
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

or is this one of those non-literal parts, depending on whom you ask*, even though it is supposed to be the actual words of Jesus.


*this is why Atheists have a major issue with the bible. Selective literalism, oh that part's literal, but the next isn't, but the next two are, then four others chime in with "no the first part isn't but the parts before and after are. quite frankly it's migraine inducing.

sorry you don't get to cherry pick your beliefs and accuse us of being irrational.

And that's what it is, cherry picking to suit your beliefs, not god's, because by cherry picking and saying, "oh he didn't meant that literally" you are presuming to know the mind of god.

[Rageaholic]

My friend said he wanted as many freedoms in life as he could get and God just couldn't deliver that.

He nailed it with that. No matter what spin I took on Christianity, be it the hellfire baptists or the more spiritual liberal denominations, there was always some catch. You had to live according to a certain standard, which meant giving up a lot of things in this life. Well I prefer to enjoy the life I have because it may be the only one I get.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Perhaps your friend is insisting on a literal interpretation of every word of the Bible.

A lot of people do that. Its easier to argue against a gospel of restrictions than one of love.

Thank you. I've seen that time and time again.

And BTW, Hyena Dandy is right. It's not about the restrictions. Jesus himself blew off the restrictions.

Old Testament=Old. New Testament=New. It's not a hard concept. Of course, all the really good reasons against are in the Old Testament, so it's easier to go with that.

saying, "oh he didn't meant that literally" you are presuming to know the mind of god.

Saying "Oh, but he did", so are you.

[Ladeeda]

You can't take some parts as literal and some not and still say it's the True Werd of Gawd.

[Andara Bledin]

You can't take some parts as literal and some not and still say it's the True Werd of Gawd.

We've had a whole thread about this. The bible is based on the word of God and then fucked up for centuries by the humans that have been handling it.

If you want to be minimalist the only real thing that is required of a Christian is that you honestly repent your sins and accept Christ as your savior. The end.

I also like to go with the more spiritual aspects, myself. You know, love thy neighbor, don't be a fucktard... All that jazz.

The materialistic stuff is pretty obviously mostly about the Church and I have no use for a middleman.

^-.-^

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

I assume you mean "This was not an attempt"?

Yes, I have corrected my original post.