Disagreeing with the church = losing your priesthood

[Rageaholic]

It happened to this guy

This father Roy was ordered to recant his statement on believing that women should be priests. He refused and ultimately lost his priesthood.

First of all, I agree with him. The only reasons I heard as to why women can't be priests are based on tradition. Asking why the church can't get with the times is a valid question. I mean it's one thing if he was practicing Satanism or trying to justify mass murder or something henious, but all he was disagreeing on was on allowing women to be priests. I don't get what the big deal is.

[Shangri-laschild]

While I think people should be able to voice their opinions, he is basically an employee making a lot of very public statements about what he thinks his employer is doing wrong. Not only is he essentially an employee but he is a representative of the church and the church beliefs. If they don't feel like he is representing the church well then outside of how I feel about his stance, I think they should be able to take him out of that position.

[Boozy]

^ What she said.

I can't go around making public statements about stupid things my company does without getting fired, either.

[Andara Bledin]

It seems to me that if the priest and the church he is supposed to represent no longer see eye to eye, it might be in everybody's best interests that he move on.

^-.-^

[Rageaholic]

I don't think the employee dissing his company is a valid analogy. He wasn't outright flaming his bosses, he was stating his views on a tradition he disagrees with. It would be more like a company firing an employee because he states he disagrees with a policy. And if companies do that, than they are more draconian than I thought. Hell, if we're going to compare the Catholic Church to a company, they probably would have been sued for sexism by now. lol

I applaud Father Roy and others like him who stand up for what's right. It probably is in his best interest to leave the church, but it's a shame they are so close minded about it.

[Boozy]

I don't think the employee dissing his company is a valid analogy. He wasn't outright flaming his bosses, he was stating his views on a tradition he disagrees with. It would be more like a company firing an employee because he states he disagrees with a policy.

Not quite. I'm allowed to disagree with my bosses during private discussions. What I am NOT allowed to do is publicly voice my dissatisfaction with company policy (in this case, church doctrine) to my customers (in this case, parishioners).

[Ree]

Priests take a vow of obedience.

It doesn't matter that this priest disagrees with the Church's stand on female ordination.
The Catholic Church does not currently allow women to be ordained, and it doesn't seem that there are plans any time soon to change that.
If he has taken a vow of obedience to his Church, then he has to keep his thoughts to himself on that subject.

[Kheldarson]

Or take them up with his bishop.


Honestly, there are better ways to go about it than publicly declaring the Church is wrong. Because once you do that, guess what? You're in heresy territory. And the Church generally takes a dim view on that.

[Rapscallion]

Used to be house arrest or torture for things like that. He got away lightly. I think that shows that the the church involved is somewhat more enlightened than it used to be.

Rapscallion

[Rageaholic]

Used to be house arrest or torture for things like that. He got away lightly. I think that shows that the the church involved is somewhat more enlightened than it used to be.

Rapscallion

lol good point.

[Rapscallion]

Danke. More seriously, though, I have to agree that it's an employer/employee relationship.

I saw one defrocked priest on GMTV (morning TV progreamme) back in the 80s or early nineties with his new partner or bride. In effect, he was a catholic priest and she was a Sunday school teacher. They'd got together and both ended up dismissed for not following the rules.

They were on national television moaning about this until the presenter simply pointed out the obvious aspect of them disobeying the rules of the job, and well-known rules at that, and asked what their problem was.

"Er, we think the church didn't have to be so nasty about it," was the best they could muster.

Besides, mouthing off publicly about your employer is well known to have adverse effects on your employment.

Rapscallion

[Evandril]

It happened to this guy

This father Roy was ordered to recant his statement on believing that women should be priests. He refused and ultimately lost his priesthood.

From the sound of this, it sounds like what got him fired wasn't just his statement about women being priests, it was his refusal to obey the Vatican when they told him to recant his statements...Slight difference, but an important one, IMO. It's not just publicly saying something against your employer, it's saying something against your employers policies, and refusing to back down when management tells you to.

Boils down to the same thing, and is one reason I have little respect for the Catholic church as a whole, but that's a different arguement

[HYHYBT]

In a way, though, that's worse: it's ordering him to lie. Whereas just telling him to shut up about the subject or stick to "the Church teaches this" leaving his own opinion out of it is not.

Surely the Vatican still considers lying to be a sin?

[Ree]

Ah, but there's the fine point.

By asking him to recant, the Church does not consider it lying.
They believe what he is saying goes against the doctrine to which he promised obedience, so is therefore the actual lie.

[Hyena Dandy]

The role of the priest is, essentially, as an ambassador to the public of the church. His job is to espouse church doctrine.

It is an employer-employee relationship, and beyond that, he's not doing his job. His job is to explain Catholic doctrine to people. He was asked to recant which, (if I remember correctly) is different from being asked to say he never thought it, or even that he thought it but was corrected. He as asked to say that he was out of line to say it, even if he thought it. Because he was. Even if the doctrine in this case was stupid, his job is to support it.

As I said, he's an ambassador to the rest of the world, on behalf of the church.

I agree with him. But the important thing is that my job is not to teach church doctrine. Its to teach the mechanics of Dungeons and Dragons. Which is a far more awesome job.