My Problem With Christianity

[Andara Bledin]

Yet many universally fail at even that. But still call themselves Christian.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see what relevance what other people do regarding their actions and the Christian religion have to do with me being Christian.

Is there some sort of point you forgot to make?

^-.-^

[Gravekeeper]

I'm sorry, but I fail to see what relevance what other people do regarding their actions and the Christian religion have to do with me being Christian.

I'm sorry, I don't recall ever saying this has anything to do with you specifically.

I was unaware you had elected yourself Christianity's sole spokesperson here.

-.-

[Andara Bledin]

I'm sorry, I don't recall ever saying this has anything to do with you specifically.

I'm not sure what it has to do with anyone or anything in this thread, then, and will cease wasting time on the matter.

It still comes down to the fact that guywithashovel's contention that those who are not anti-gay bigots can't really be Christians is a classic example of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

^-.-^

[Gravekeeper]

I'm not sure what it has to do with anyone or anything in this thread, then, and will cease wasting time on the matter.

I was musing as I was honestly curious because of all of this wrangling around about what is and isn't Christian and this running theme of "I'm Christian except for that part". I couldn't really think of any particular universal qualifier myself as there's inevitably a sect or denomination that disagrees with anything put forth.

The barest qualifier is a belief in a specific God, but there isn't even an agreement on who and what that God is. In fact who and what God is seems to be the single most contencious point amongst Christians.

It still comes down to the fact that guywithashovel's contention that those who are not anti-gay bigots can't really be Christians is a classic example of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

I believe I already stated what I think of that particular silliness. -.-

[Mytical]

Actually there is one major factor to be called a christian. Sitting down? Good. I mean it is going to come as a major shock..you sure you are ready??

You have to believe that christ was more then a man. That really is it in a nut shell. You might believe he is god in human form, or god's son..but to be a Christian you have to believe Christ..the guy the religion is named after, has a divine origin. Everything else is just the local flavoring. So your bean thing is not correct. It does start with a single foundation, with the rest just being seasoning.

Just like I can call myself a 'enlightened being', people can call themselves christian..doesn't mean they are. I can call myself Gravekeeper's Boss..doesn't make it so. However, it is not for us to judge if they are or not. Regardless if they claim to do something in the name of religion or not there is one undeniable truth. If they are right about Christ's father being the one true god, but wrong about what god wants..they will get theirs in the end.

[Gravekeeper]

You have to believe that christ was more then a man.

Jefferson Bible says no. So does my mom. -.-

[Iseeyouthere]

So... he was "better" than the rest of us? *cough* Yeah, right... Till you prove that he was "more than a man", I fail to see what makes him so speacil.

I am against Christianity when it affects advancement of culture, social values, freedoms and basic rights with nothing to back up their claims other than 'the bibble says so" or "Its what Jeebus wants" or "Sky fairy... I mean... 'god's will'."

Because the bible has several upon several contradictions in it, so I can't accept it as evidence. You can't cherry pick the damn thing, choosing one passage and ignoring another. Thats the same as me following one law but breaking another.

You can't claim it's the words of Jeezbus, because I doubt you know what he said. And he sure isn't around to comfirm it is what he wanted. So that is in the bin. Thats like me saying Elvis wanted everyone to dye their hair purple and sing the Nyan Cat song daily.

And of course.. we got Flying Spagetti Monster's brother in law 'god'. If it is 'his/her/it/whatever''s will... then I doubt 'god' would allow it to happen and interfer... But it hasn't... so the only interference I am seeing are those with loud voices screaming 'goddidit'.


Scratch those who try and screw around with culture and society... and I'll leave the Christians alone. Let them believe what they wanna believe. Just keep me out of it and stop trying to fuck with my ways... or else I will have every right to fuck with yours.

[Gravekeeper]

So... he was "better" than the rest of us? *cough* Yeah, right... Till you prove that he was "more than a man", I fail to see what makes him so speacil.

The idea of Jesus's divinity was something that came about after his death to make him more marketable so to speak. Without an aspect of divinity, he could be dismissed as just another street preacher. This is reflected in both Judaism and Islam, who I might add have much more direct straight from the mouth unaltered sources for their Holy texts than Christianity does. In Judaism, Jesus is just a teacher but not a messiah in any way. In Islam, Jesus is just a prophet ( One of many ). Only Christianity claims him to be anything more and Christianity has the shakiest and most incomplete source material of the three. As well as a long standing history of political interference and alteration to suit its needs in any given time period.

[Mytical]

No clue about the Jordon Bible, or how it differs..but keep in mind that the vast majority of beliefs is that Jesus walked on water, healed the sick, cast out demons, etc. Not exactly the work of a 'normal' man.

As for Christianity, you don't have to believe what they believe..you do not have to follow their ways. However, there are some very good things to take away from the bible. Yes, you can obsess about the other things..and obsess about what OTHER people are doing and believe..or you can realize it is what you believe that is important..it is how YOU behave that matters.

The most important lessons to take away..is that regardless of how we got here, we all come from the same initial source. Regardless of if it was from an amoeba or created from dirt by a all powerful force. That we should treat each good, should always strive to make ourselves better, and respect others beliefs.... Obsess or live your own life. Seems like a simple choice to me

[Gravekeeper]

No clue about the Jordon Bible, or how it differs..but keep in mind that the vast majority of beliefs is that Jesus walked on water, healed the sick, cast out demons, etc. Not exactly the work of a 'normal' man.

Jefferson Bible, as in Thomas Jefferson. You may have heard of him? >.>

Its a version of the Bible without any supernatural elements. Also, many of the supposed miracles of Jesus are lifted from Buddha. Who in turn were likely lifted from a previous source. Many elements of the Jesus story generously borrow from Buddha.

The most important lessons to take away..is that regardless of how we got here, we all come from the same initial source. Regardless of if it was from an amoeba or created from dirt by a all powerful force. That we should treat each good, should always strive to make ourselves better, and respect others beliefs....

You realise that none of that is really in the Bible and what similar elements of it are, are contradicted with alarming frequency? -.-

[Iseeyouthere]

The idea of Jesus's divinity was something that came about after his death to make him more marketable so to speak. Without an aspect of divinity, he could be dismissed as just another street preacher. This is reflected in both Judaism and Islam, who I might add have much more direct straight from the mouth unaltered sources for their Holy texts than Christianity does. In Judaism, Jesus is just a teacher but not a messiah in any way. In Islam, Jesus is just a prophet ( One of many ). Only Christianity claims him to be anything more and Christianity has the shakiest and most incomplete source material of the three. As well as a long standing history of political interference and alteration to suit its needs in any given time period.

Just standing opposed to what Mytical is claiming. Seems like a large claim... What I find humourous about that claim however is it is suppost to be "shocking".
I'll be shocked, Mytical, if you can back that claim that Jeebus is more than a man. Burden of proof is on you.

Won't lie. I'm eager for a response.

[smileyeagle1021]

You have to believe that christ was more then a man.

And there is the rub.
Very few people are denying that Christ existed. That a man named Jesus Christ lived about 2000 years ago is not debated, that he had a following is not really debated, that he was a wise man has very little debate. The issue boils down to, was he a wise man or was he a god.

[Iseeyouthere]

The issue boils down to, was he a wise man or was he a god.

It doesn't really boil down to this or that. There are many different ideas of who he may of been.

Acutally, I've got a few hypothesis on who he may of been:
A myth, like the Greek heroes of mythology
A con-man, using mind tricks or primitive drugs to trick the people
A leader, but it is unkown if he were a good leader... or a bad one like Jim Jones.

I got several others, but with-out evidence to prove them, I can't claim that these are true.
But the idea that he was a wise man or a 'god' also fall under the hypothesis list. With-out evidence, it is just a claim of words.

And until evidence comes forward to back the claim, I am afriad that this mystery will never be solved. So there is no point telling people that Jeebus was a great man with nothing to back it up by. For all we know, he could of been a tyrant, forcing his view on people and using terror tactics.
We don't know.

But I'd rather admit "I don't know" than claim something and not back it up.

[KabeRinnaul]

You realise that none of that is really in the Bible and what similar elements of it are, are contradicted with alarming frequency? -.-

The "treat each other well" bit is, at least. And respecting one another. I'd name verses that promote such ideals, but I only got through the Gospel of Luke before deciding the list was too long to post them all. So instead, here's my main reference. Just scroll down to the New Testament and look over some of the things Jesus says.

[Gravekeeper]

So instead, here's my main reference. Just scroll down to the New Testament and look over some of the things Jesus says.

And I would point you straight back to the exact same website where it immediately contracts everything good it states, God breaks near every commandment and kills practically everyone for the slightest provocation and Jesus totally backs him up.