Is atheism geared more toward christianity?

[crashhelmet]

Is there a devil wanting your soul?

Rapscallion

No, actually.

There are mentions of demons possessing the living and assumptions that the serpent, Lucifer, and Satan are all one in the same. They're mentioned trying to corrupt people or test their faith. They're never after a soul.

Any soul stealing or bargains are the writings of other authors or fire and brimstone type evangelists.

[Andara Bledin]

Is there a devil wanting your soul?

Nope. All my demons are of my own creation and are my own to fight. and hell is a self-imposed punishment.

^-.-^

[Duelist925]

Is there a devil wanting your soul?

Rapscallion

Yep. He say's his names Stan. He tells me to burn things.

[draco664]

Bear in mind that modern religion - the western form anyway - requires a scapegoat or demon. Someone to blame or fear.

Rapscallion

Meh, I'm more inclined to believe that any institution looking to expand its level of power or influence (or bank balance) requires "a scapegoat or demon." Organised Churches and cults certainly fit into that description, but so do labor unions, political parties and even professional sports teams.

[Rapscallion]

Nope. All my demons are of my own creation and are my own to fight. and hell is a self-imposed punishment.

^-.-^

Interesting. With all the times I bring up something about christianity and the way it doesn't apply to you, I'm starting to think of you as more a humanist than a religious person.

Rapscallion

[crashhelmet]

Interesting. With all the times I bring up something about christianity and the way it doesn't apply to you, I'm starting to think of you as more a humanist than a religious person.

Rapscallion

I've said it before and i'll say it again. "Religion" is nothing more than a set of beliefs one adheres to. Atheism is a religion. A non-deity based religion, but a religion none the less. Humanitarianism is as well.

[Jaden]

Interesting. With all the times I bring up something about christianity and the way it doesn't apply to you, I'm starting to think of you as more a humanist than a religious person.

Rapscallion

Or maybe you simply have a skewed vision of Christianity do to the vocal minority that gets themselves in the news?

I'm also a Christian. I don't push my views on other people, nor do I make an "enemy" out of anybody. I have no problem with non-militant atheists, and the only problem I have with militant atheists is the same problem I have with hyper-evangelical Christians.

[Rapscallion]

Or maybe you simply have a skewed vision of Christianity do to the vocal minority that gets themselves in the news?

Not really. I know that those people would be fuckers whether they were following a religion or a football team.

Rapscallion

[Jaden]

Not really. I know that those people would be fuckers whether they were following a religion or a football team.

Rapscallion

Fair enough. I'm just trying to figure out your distinction here. Why is it that Andara is a humanist as opposed to a religious person, and why can't one be both? I read your comment as "You seem like a good person who doesn't adhere to the social dogmas that Christians are in the news for, so therefore you must not be an actual Christian." I could be entirely wrong, of course.

[Rapscallion]

The central tenet of christianity is that you can get to candyland if you do what you're told. That's the overwhelming message jesus tried to give, from what I read of the new testament. Whenever I bring up the supernatural elements, it never applies to Andara. I get the feeling she tries not to shit on others as a general policy. However, you can do that without believing in the supernatural aspect.

Rapscallion

[Andara Bledin]

Interesting. With all the times I bring up something about christianity and the way it doesn't apply to you, I'm starting to think of you as more a humanist than a religious person.

You can think what you like, but it doesn't change the fact that I am Christian.

And this is part of the problem that moderate Christians are running into these days: the assholes on the edge are so vocal and so newsworthy that the rest of us are barely considered Christian because we're not like those assholes.

I do what I can to prove, through both words and actions, that you don't have to be an asshole to be a Christian, and you're a better Christian by not being an asshole, but there are a lot of assholes hellbent on alienating the entire rest of the world, including any Christian who won't support their bullshit.

^-.-^

[Jaden]

The central tenet of christianity is that you can get to candyland if you do what you're told. That's the overwhelming message jesus tried to give, from what I read of the new testament. Whenever I bring up the supernatural elements, it never applies to Andara. I get the feeling she tries not to shit on others as a general policy. However, you can do that without believing in the supernatural aspect.

Rapscallion

The central tenet of Christianity is "love your neighbor as yourself." That's it. The few times hell is mentioned in the Bible, the entire reason people went there is because of how they treated their fellow man. It's just some other people who have twisted it for their own needs. I agree that you can not shit on others as a general policy without believing in the supernatural aspects of Christianity, or in Christianity at all.

I do believe in God, Jesus dying on the cross and rising again, etc. The supernatural aspects if you will. But the only thing Jesus told me to do to get to candyland is to love my neighbor as myself, and love other people. If that's "doing what I'm told," or if it makes me a sheep, well, then I'm happy to be one.

[Andara Bledin]

The central tenet of christianity is that you can get to candyland if you do what you're told. That's the overwhelming message jesus tried to give, from what I read of the new testament. Whenever I bring up the supernatural elements, it never applies to Andara. I get the feeling she tries not to shit on others as a general policy. However, you can do that without believing in the supernatural aspect.

Rapscallion

To get to "Candyland," to go with your base analogy, one has to believe in God as the creator, believe that Jesus died for the sins of humanity, and do one's best to be a decent human being and truly repent the times when they fail.

And I've freely conceded that you don't need religion to not shit on others. I don't need religion to not shit on others. I don't need religion. But that doesn't alter the fact that I am religious.

It's really a shame that so many cannot fit the idea of someone like me into their worldview without either claiming the person is lying or that they're not a "true" religious person.

^-.-^

[Nekojin]

As I've mentioned in another thread (I think), I was raised in first Southern Baptist, then Catholic religious settings. There was a significant gap between the two, and I had a lot of exposure to teachers that encouraged me to think and ask questions - those who taught how to solve problems, not "teaching to the test." As such, I did start questioning details about Christianity, and eventually rejected it. I did go through a phase where I seized on every inconsistency in the Bible and used it as evidence of its being hokum (and I do still think that the claims that the Bible is infallible, written by God through men, is absurd due to those inconsistencies).

I did eventually realize that this degree of aggression toward Christians was needlessly harmful, however, so I left off and decided to go my own way, to live and let live. You believe what you believe, and as long as you're not trying to force me to join you, we won't have any problems.

But the doctrine that ultimately made me decide that I wasn't a Christian of any stripe was the oppressive doctrine of Hell. Not its existence - I do believe that there are some people who are so vile that they DO need to be punished beyond what mortal law can manage - but both its strident intolerance and its permanence. Born in a native tribe far from civilization, and never exposed to Christianity? Too bad, you go to hell, and you stay there forever. Likewise if you're presented with the real-day problem of conflicting doctrines. Pick the wrong one, and you're damned to hell forever, even if you're otherwise a good, moral person who strives to commit as few sins as possible, and earnestly repents the ones you did commit. That just doesn't seem like something a loving, benevolent god would do.

These days, I describe myself as an agnostic. I don't know whether there's a god - or gods - up there, and I think it's unlikely that I'll ever know while I'm alive. And ultimately, I don't think it matters. I have more important things to concern myself with while I'm here. Sadly, being agnostic means that I'm typically under attack by both sides when religious debates get heated - I get flamed by Christians for being a godless heretic, and I get flamed by Atheists for being an ignorant superstitionist. All because I don't believe precisely the same as they do.

[guywithashovel]

I see this discussion is leaning more towards the angle of "Who is a real Christian?"

I brought this up in another thread a while ago and got into some trouble for allegedly saying that some people aren't "real Christians," even though that wasn't what I said at all.

It seems that "Christian" is a pretty broad label. However, at some point, I think it does make sense to question why someone is still associating with a certain religion or ideological group. Take me, for example. I used to be a pretty active Christian. I attended church regularly, read the Bible, tried to apply it to my life, and other related things. However, as time progressed, I drifted away from it. It got to the point where I was no longer attending church or doing anything else to apply Christianity to my life. However, I still called myself a Christian. Eventually, I took a hard look at myself and realized a few things.

1. I never attended church or did anything to practice the religion.
2. I never prayed.
3. I didn't believe in many of the things the Bible teaches, aside from the basic moral principles that can be found in almost every religion and moral philosophy on the planet.

In light of all that, I really didn't think it made much sense to keep calling myself a Christian. Evidently, some people think that merely believing you should be nice to other people and having some modicum of a belief in Jesus is enough, even though they don't believe in a hefty portion of what's written in the Bible and have probably never taken the time to read the Bible in its entirety. Okay, if you insist, then I'll call you a Christian, but it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense.