your rapist is forgiven, your mother goes to hell!

[BlaqueKatt]

story here

9 year old girl was raped and became pregnant with twins, Cardinal Giovanni Batista Re(and backed up by a senior vatican cleric), excommunicated the mother of the girl and the physician that performed the lifesaving abortion, however :

the cardinal added: "It is a sad case but the real problem is that the twins conceived were two innocent persons. Life must always be protected."

Well gee what the f*ck do you think the physician was trying to do? He was not murdering two lives(at the mother's age I don't think she would've carried to term), he was SAVING A LIFE!

Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, the conservative regional archbishop for Pernambuco where the girl was rushed to hospital, has said that the man would not be thrown out of the Church, because although he had allegedly committed "a heinous crime", the Church took the view that "the abortion, the elimination of an innocent life, was more serious".

At least the president of Brazil has more sense than the Vatican.

"The doctors did what had to be done: save the life of a girl of nine years old. In this case, the medical profession was more right than the Church."

[Jaden]

Wow, that's terrible. I mean, as I literally just typed a few seconds ago, I'm against abortion, except when the mother or child's life is in danger, and here's a perfect example - the mother wouldn't have lived, so it had to be done.

But whether you think what they did was wrong or not (and I don't), what about grace, Cardinal? That's the Christianity I believe in =/

And, it goes without saying, excommunicating the mother and the physician, but not the rapist, is just disgusting on so many levels.

[Andara Bledin]

I want to know what the fuck it matters that one event was "more serious" than another.

In the eyes of the church, both actions were seen as unacceptable, so why isn't the rapist also excommunicated? That makes no fucking sense whatsoever unless viewed through a misogynistic, patriarchal filter.

I like the fact that the doctor plans to keep attending church. I just hope no backwards-thinking, holier-than-thou, religious vigilantes decide to harm him.

^-.-^

[Nekojin]

I just don't have words for this. Blindly adhering to doctrine while ignoring important circumstances seems to be the greater evil here. No justice is being served by excommunicating the people who saved the girl's life.

[BlaqueKatt]

I want to know what the fuck it matters that one event was "more serious" than another.

I would like to know where the "sliding scale of sin" is compiled, I wonder if he'd reverse the excommunication if the fetuses were tested(I know it isn't possible) and found to be homosexual? Seriously I've read the bible, I do not recall anything in there about "these sins are bad, these are mostly ok, these are unforgivable..." And really Cardinal follow the words of your saviour, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" And "for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of god." those are in there.

Sad, atheist knows the bible better than a cardinal......

[Rageaholic]

Man the Catholic Church is full of fail recently. They've become like the Public Schools, too concerned about enforcing stupid rules than the well being of their people. Another reason I'm an EX Catholic.

[crashhelmet]

I would like to know where the "sliding scale of sin" is compiled, I wonder if he'd reverse the excommunication if the fetuses were tested(I know it isn't possible) and found to be homosexual? Seriously I've read the bible, I do not recall anything in there about "these sins are bad, these are mostly ok, these are unforgivable..." And really Cardinal follow the words of your saviour, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" And "for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of god." those are in there.

Sad, atheist knows the bible better than a cardinal......

Thou shall not kill? That's not in there?

Man... All these years I've been wrong and didn't know it until now.

[AdminAssistant]

Thou shall not kill? That's not in there?

So, the 9 year old should have been forced to carry the twins to term, likely killing her?

Must be that Christian sense of compassion I hear so much about.

[Andara Bledin]

Killing is allowed in the defense of another. I'm really tired of people taking the whole "shall not kill" as an absolute black and white.

The proto-people were killing an actual person. The girl's life trumps their potential (and likely non-existent) lives.

^-.-^

[Rebel]

Thou shall not kill? That's not in there?

Man... All these years I've been wrong and didn't know it until now.

In the bible, a baby is not considered of any worth until they are 1 month old. Numbers 3:15-16.
A fetus killed in the womb was only considered worthy of a small fine. Exodus 21:22-23, Leviticus 27:6.
God loves killing fetuses and young children (and pretty much everyone else as well). Hosea 9:14, Hosea 9:16, Hosea 13:16, 2 Samuel 12:14.

Bible reading. No-one does it anymore. You should never fully trust someone preaching to you from a pulpit or in a church, they always have an agenda with everything they say.

That and the Catholic Church didn't even consider abortion to be wrong until like the 1700's. They used to freely administer herbs to induce the menstrual cycle. It's more of a patriarchal political thing than any sort of moral idea.

[crashhelmet]

In the bible, a baby is not considered of any worth until they are 1 month old. Numbers 3:15-16.
A fetus killed in the womb was only considered worthy of a small fine. Exodus 21:22-23, Leviticus 27:6.
God loves killing fetuses and young children (and pretty much everyone else as well). Hosea 9:14, Hosea 9:16, Hosea 13:16, 2 Samuel 12:14.

Bible reading. No-one does it anymore. You should never fully trust someone preaching to you from a pulpit or in a church, they always have an agenda with everything they say.

That and the Catholic Church didn't even consider abortion to be wrong until like the 1700's. They used to freely administer herbs to induce the menstrual cycle. It's more of a patriarchal political thing than any sort of moral idea.

Did you seriously just cite Exodus 21:22-23 and then accuse other people of not reading the Bible?????

22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

ETA
Now for the rest of your citations....
The counting of children within Numbers has no bearing on the value of life.
The price amounts in Leviticus are not the fines or values of life if someone is killed. It was a tithe paid for whatever was being devoted to God.
The comments in Hosea are punishments that God gives out for those that worship false idols.
Again, the comments in 2 Samuel 12:14 are a punishment for the slaying of a man to take his wife as the killer's own.

Have you ever actually read the Bible or are you one of these Atheists that likes to spout of random crap to make it sound like you know what you're talking about?

[Rebel]

Serious injury to the woman, not the fetus.
Can't have the husbands main property getting all damaged and unusable.

[Nekojin]

Killing is allowed in the defense of another. I'm really tired of people taking the whole "shall not kill" as an absolute black and white.

This Commandment, like a few others, is twisted out of original context, partly due to translation issues. It's my understanding that that Commandment (fifth or sixth Commandment, depending on which ordering you follow) is specifically, "You shall not murder," and there are numerous exceptions to it.

Likewise, the Commandment that reads, "Thou shalt not have any other gods before me," is not a demand to not hold ANY other gods, just that God comes first; and the Commandment that reads, "thou shalt not bear false witness," is not a blanket ban against lies, just against the most egregious of lies - saying that someone else did something bad when you know they didn't.

[Jaden]

Crash: I'm with you to some extent - I also view abortion as killing, but the fact of the matter here is, it was either her or the children. She was scared, and so was her mother. They had to do what they had to do. Also, BlaqueKatt was right - whether it was a sin or not, why does the Catholic church get to decide which sins are worth excommunicating and which aren't? And what about grace and compassion?

Rebel: Sorry, but as somebody who does read the Bible, I'm going to have to say that, while I ultimately agree with you on this one issue, your Biblical citations are completely off the mark, as Crash already pointed out. Don't quote Bible verses seemingly at random and then accuse others of not reading the Bible.

[crashhelmet]

Crash: I'm with you to some extent - I also view abortion as killing, but the fact of the matter here is, it was either her or the children. She was scared, and so was her mother. They had to do what they had to do. Also, BlaqueKatt was right - whether it was a sin or not, why does the Catholic church get to decide which sins are worth excommunicating and which aren't? And what about grace and compassion?

Rebel: Sorry, but as somebody who does read the Bible, I'm going to have to say that, while I ultimately agree with you on this one issue, your Biblical citations are completely off the mark, as Crash already pointed out. Don't quote Bible verses seemingly at random and then accuse others of not reading the Bible.

As I've stated on this board several times over, I am a Catholic. However, I have never once in this thread said that I agree with the actions of the Church in this issue.

I am someone that also supports abortion if it means saving the life of the mother.

What I have done this thread, and will continue to do, is poke holes in ignorant arguments. Very few things irritate me more than people treating someone else like an idiot and justifying it with their own ignorance.