Scientology

[jackfaire]

One of the reason's Scientology gets attacked more is because the Spanish Inquisition was centuries ago but today Scientology is telling it's members who need psychological help to stop taking their medication.

It isn't just Scientology either every, "We are all God" faith dislikes things like psychology and hard science.

A girl I am seeing refuses to celebrate her birthday and tries to stay emotionally uninvolved with anything because apparently those are the keys to immortality.

She has a semi cult mentality sometimes and it's freaky.

[Skunkle]

The part about Scientology that irks me isn't the "religion" itself. That, well, if they decide it's a religion, it can be.

The thing is, aside from whether or not their techniques of healing work, in the main body of the church a member must pay prices - exorbitant prices, which increase at each step. Admittedly, some Christian denominations require the person to tithe certain amounts, too, but we are not talking hundreds of thousands of dollars. Even to the smaller points: the E-Meters, which do do exactly what they say (noted below). To run church-sanctioned testing, one must p[urchase an e-meter - which currently is noted to cost about $4,000. And one must have it tested a few times per year at another (high) cost, and must buy a new model when the old one is replaced with a new official model.

The e-meter is essentially just a measurement of skin conductivity. The commonly seen "stress test" offered by Scientologists consists of setting the needle to center to compensate for existing conductivity, then asking questions about events or happenings which may be causing you stress. If something is indeed stressful, the sweat will affect the needle. The issues arise from two things following this: First, there is the notion of what, exactly, causes this stress - I believe the stress is real, the supposed causes are bull. But second, those who run these "stress tests" know next to nothing about Scientology itself - they're usually recent converts - and cannot explain how the meter works or what it indicates. By this, I mean that even explaining what it really is would not destroy their claims - but yet they keep people in the dark as though this will keep them devoted. Next you take one of the "stress tests", ask them questions - they will almost always tell you that they really don't know because they're new, they're honest and polite about this.

I've only met one who tried to bluster his way through, rather than saying he really wasn't sure. I asked him if my being Christian would have any conflict with my being a Scientologist. At first, he told me quite assuredly that there would be no conflict. I wioggled around a bit before asking again, and was told the same thing. We chatted a bit more, and in the course of conversation about Scientology-as-religion, he then stated with equal self-assurance that Scientology was a substitute for Christianity, and thus one did not need and could discard the latter if one had the former. Wondering if he'd notice the discrepancy (since this later response wasn't as a result of my direct askin g, unlike earlier) I asked the same question I'd asked twice before: Would my being Christian have any conflict with my being a Scientologist? He stated quite assuredly that if I am a Scientologist I do not need and in fact should discard Christianity.

...

As stated, he's the only one who tried to bluster through with BS instead of saying "I don't know" or stating that he/she would say (answer) but that, being new, they might be incorrect, and he never did notice that he'd given me two countering answers to the same question in a span of five minutes.

[Slytovhand]

Nice post Skunkle.

Part of the reason it gets called a 'religion' is it takes what would be considered some 'belief's, though those are based on what one perceives as personal experiences..

In theory, there's no contradiction in being a Christian and a Scientologist... "What's true for you, is true for you". In theory, they're not supposed to tell you anything. The whole process of auditing is for you to get your realisations for yourself.

$4000 for an e-meter?? Holy crap! They've gone down!!! Last I saw, they were $10,000 or so! (and you can make a decent one for about $800 - cost in electronics parts).

I've said before, and I will say again, the 'church' of $cio is a money-making business... it gets ppl in, and gets them to believe things... it's basically a cult.

Unfortunately, it's also got some damned handy bits of info/technology in it! Ah, always the way!

[Dreamstalker]

EXACTLY!!!!! He was a SCIENCE FICTION writer - he has TONS of books in the genre of SCIENCE FICTION!!!!

A local Borders has Dianetics shelved under Religion. Or it could be a long-running prank, all I know is I consistently see that title polluting the other innocent books. The others seem to be in sci-fi where they belong (I occasionally see them shoved in with Humor).

[Slytovhand]

EXACTLY!!!!! He was a SCIENCE FICTION writer - he has TONS of books in the genre of SCIENCE FICTION!!!!

I mean, c'mon!!!!!

Since it was just re-quoted, I thought I'd jump on it.

You are aware that there is nothing inherently illogical about writing more than 1 genre, and having good skill with both... (now, if he was a comedian, I'd probably take a slightly different angle on it.. but then, there are also some very well educated comedians out there who have done great things in a different field altogether! Hasn't John Cleese written books on business management? (or was it just videos?). Bill Oddie (The Goodies) is a rather world-reknown ornithologist and documentary maker....


Just picking up on the one point... and choosing not to get into the others......

[BroomJockey]

You are aware that there is nothing inherently illogical about writing more than 1 genre, and having good skill with both...

No, but it's hard to take the story of the beliefs of the Church of Scientology seriously once you know the "prophet" made his living creating scenarios like that.

[IDrinkaRum]

Aaaah ... but see ... his science-fiction books weren't really science-fiction. They were his early attempts at getting the word out to people of what to expect in the future.

He finally was able to write his Bible (for lack of a better word) to indoctrinate ... I mean to bring people into the fold and let them know the truth of what he tells/told them.

(all tongue-in-cheeck of course)

[Fashion Lad!]

Gotta say, I believe that most religions if not all could be filed under "BS". But, I'm not a religious person. If I were Catholic, I'd say that the Catholic religion is the only one worthwhile and so forth. Who are we to judge other people's "religion"? It for some reason makes them happy, let them go on. It's not hurting anyone.

[BroomJockey]

It's not hurting anyone.

Except the CoS DOES hurt people. And I'm not talking about charging money, or anything like that.

I'm talking actual physical damage done to humans and property.

Lisa McPherson.
Operation Snow White.
"Fair Game" orders.
Literally dozens of other examples

So while other religions have a history of things, meaning happened centuries ago, CoS has a present of doing shit. And unlike modern religious extremism, this shit is sanctioned the entire way up the chain.

[bunnyboy]

Except the CoS DOES hurt people. And I'm not talking about charging money, or anything like that.

I'm talking actual physical damage done to humans and property.

Lisa McPherson.
Operation Snow White.
"Fair Game" orders.
Literally dozens of other examples

So while other religions have a history of things, meaning happened centuries ago, CoS has a present of doing shit. And unlike modern religious extremism, this shit is sanctioned the entire way up the chain.

Other than the fact that the average everyday not paying for OT III Scientologist or freezoner really ISN'T hurting anyone I'd say you have it right.

You know just like the average Christian isn't a bible-thumping God Haets Fags loving, religious zealot, or every Catholic isn't ALWAYS on the side of the Pope (just think of the sedevacantists, or to a slight degree Angus Dei), or every Atheist isn't that one God Delusion guy, neither is every scientologist a fair gaming, snow white loving, sickly-lady killer.

Is the CoS bad, yes, is Scientology, not any more than New Age, Laveyan Satanism, or Thelema.

Oh and try telling the extremism isn't all the way up the chain to the folks in Iran or the Taliban controlled areas of Pakistan/Afghanistan.

So nutjob thousands of years ago = real religiion, but one only decades ago = cult?
That seems overly subjective.
Honestly, scientology doesn't seem any less sensible than most "real" religions out there.

Exactly, the whole thing is cult + time = real religion and time is usually about 1000 years, if it survives.

One of the reason's Scientology gets attacked more is because the Spanish Inquisition was centuries ago but today Scientology is telling it's members who need psychological help to stop taking their medication.

It isn't just Scientology either every, "We are all God" faith dislikes things like psychology and hard science.

A girl I am seeing refuses to celebrate her birthday and tries to stay emotionally uninvolved with anything because apparently those are the keys to immortality.

She has a semi cult mentality sometimes and it's freaky.

Eh aside from morons who don't think beyond A! GOD! AM! I! (was that over the top, I can never tell.) most of those faiths (if Laveyan Satanism can be called a faith) are pretty much, dude you NEED to be healthy dumbshit, you might be a god, but you're more like the one that needed Idun's apples to continue living.

really it comes down to how stupid the people following are. Tom Cruise isn't Scientology just like Mel Gibson is Catholicism, just like the local Wicca Shop owner who's as fluffy as can be isn't Wicca, might need to remind people that even Scientologists dislike Mr. Cruise.

[jackfaire]

Not just in Scientology but in all faiths that believe psychology can be replaced with vitamins is fine in most cases however those with mental illnesses need medicine and treatment.

Those that do not seek treatment because they are being told that their mental illnes can be cured with vitamins or that it is all in their minds can be a danger to themselves and others.

[BroomJockey]

Other than the fact that the average everyday not paying for OT III Scientologist or freezoner really ISN'T hurting anyone I'd say you have it right.
.

This would be why I'm saying "CoS," not "Scientology."

[Fashion Lad!]

Murder has been apart of just about any major religion. To cut down one religion and not the rest for doing the same thing seems a bit hypocritical.

[jackfaire]

Murder has been apart of just about any major religion. To cut down one religion and not the rest for doing the same thing seems a bit hypocritical.

This is a discussion about Scientology cutting down one religion about something that others do as well isn't hypocritical unless your defending other faiths' right to do the same thing.

Other than that you can disparage one group for something without each and every time having to cite every group that does that and complain about them too. Doesn't make you hypocritical just means you aren't talking about them in this moment.

[Fashion Lad!]

I disagree with you. I mention that something isn't harming anyone. broomjockey showed me wrong. But we have high ranking Catholic dudes (not religious) basically agreeing Islamic extremeists in the martydom when it comes to saving the world from homosexuals.

So why is it different when one religion kills just like many others? What makes scientology different than any other religion other than beliefs?

I will recognize Scientology as a religion despite its short-comings just like I recognize Catholicism as a religion. But I will not cut down one religion for doing what others before them have done.