Scientology

[friendofjimmyk]

I started to rant about Tom Cruise and his shennanigans on the CS board and I stated that I will take my Scientology opinions here to fratching...so here I am...

Scientology is bunk! It's a "religion" created by a science fiction writer. Its claims are not only outrageous - but in order to have Scientology work for you - you have to have lots of money. The only way to receive the benefits of this "religion" is to keep paying them money to advance through different levels of their "healings".

I have researched this "religion". I didn't want to run off making statements that were not backed up by any research.

I have read the principles and the "rituals" of Scientologists. Scientology came about in the early 50's if I recall correctly. This is several years after 12-step fellowships and many counseling theories were formulated. I am a member of a 12-step fellowship and I am also studying to be a therapist. When I was researching Scientology I was baffled at how much the ideology of Scientology sounded like the ideology of some counseling theories and 12-step principles.

In reading through information that was formulated about L Ron Hubbard and how its reported that he was a substance abuser and a paranoid schizophrenic. I concluded that he may have been through a 12-step fellowship at some point as well as several therapists and Psychiatrists. Which makes sense at how he formulated some of his ideas for Scientology.

Then add to that the OUTRAGEOUS story behind the reason for why we experience things the way we do. Because an evil alien lord froze other aliens and dropped them in volcanoes on our planet and then when their souls escaped, the evil lord blocked them from entering the atmosphere sending then back down to earth to wander aimlessly until they eventually inhabited our ancestors. WHAT THE FUCK?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Can you say "whack job!"

Tom Cruise making the statement that Psychiatry is bunk and there is no proof that it works or that people even need Psychiatrists based on the "teachings" of L. Ron Hubbard is ridiculous. L Ron is a hack. He was bat shit crazy (he used to think the FBI was following him all the time - he was an extremely paranoid individual who was diagnosed as so by Psychiatrists!) It's also reported that he commited suicide - but the powers to be at Scientology do their best to claim otherwise.

Tom Cruise making the statement that they are the "authorities on addiction" is insane. The only thing that Scientologists are authorities on is crazy! Oh, and bilking a good portion of our celebrities out of thier cash. Because only the super rich can afford to move up in Scientology - it's not a "religion" for "common people."

[Rapscallion]

What baffles me is that those who become scientologists just don't seem to realise that the discoverer/creator was a noted writer of science fiction.

Pretty big hint.

Rapscallion

[Amethyst Hunter]

Scientology's nothing but a crackpot cult, and a dangerous one at that. IMO it should be treated as such.

As for Tom Cruise, he seriously needs to go drink the Special Kool-Aid.

[daleduke17]

Scientology's nothing but a crackpot cult, and a dangerous one at that. IMO it should be treated as such.

As for Tom Cruise, he seriously needs to go drink the Special Kool-Aid.

What did Kool-Aid ever do to get lumped in with crackpots and cults? Kool-Aid is an innocent victim. :-p

[Pedersen]

What did Kool-Aid ever do to get lumped in with crackpots and cults? Kool-Aid is an innocent victim. :-p

Jonestown cult committed mass suicide using poisoned grape Flavor-aid.

[daleduke17]

Jonestown cult committed mass suicide using poisoned grape Flavor-aid.

I knew there was a couple cults that really did that, I was making a smartass comment. I'm surprised people haven't tried to sue Kool-Aid's (and Flavor-Aid's) owners for being "responsible".

[CancelMyService]

To be fair, the FBI was after Hubbard. They knew that Scientology was basically a con designed to shake down members for ridiculous "fees" to gain access to higher levels.

IMO Hubbard was also suffering from an undiagnosed mental disorder, possibly schizophrenia. It would explain both his increasingly odd behavior as his life went on and Scientology's inbred hatred of psychology (to think it's a real science is to be "glib", as ol' Tom would say).

[friendofjimmyk]

What baffles me is that those who become scientologists just don't seem to realise that the discoverer/creator was a noted writer of science fiction.

Pretty big hint.

Rapscallion

EXACTLY!!!!! He was a SCIENCE FICTION writer - he has TONS of books in the genre of SCIENCE FICTION!!!!

I mean, c'mon!!!!!

[friendofjimmyk]

To be fair, the FBI was after Hubbard. They knew that Scientology was basically a con designed to shake down members for ridiculous "fees" to gain access to higher levels.

IMO Hubbard was also suffering from an undiagnosed mental disorder, possibly schizophrenia. It would explain both his increasingly odd behavior as his life went on and Scientology's inbred hatred of psychology (to think it's a real science is to be "glib", as ol' Tom would say).

Yeah, I had heard he was actually under investigation for basically being a con artist.

And yes - that is why Scientology is so anti-psychiatry/psychology - because ol L Ron was wacko and didn't like his diagnosis so, of course, the doctor was wrong and the ENTIRE field is bunk! Makes sense - NOT!!!

[DesignFox]

What baffles me is that those who become scientologists just don't seem to realise that the discoverer/creator was a noted writer of science fiction.

Pretty big hint.

Rapscallion

A fool and his money are soon parted...

Hubbard was a damn genius in that regard (not applauding him, I think it was a dirtbag thing to do, but you have to admit, it was genius).

I find it amazing that there are that many truly clueless people that'll just go for that garbage...especially garbage spewed out by a madman.

[Slytovhand]

Ah... why do I always miss out on the good bits??? (I haven't visited here for a few weeks... needed to get away from arguments for a while).

I don't call myself a scientologist, but I do have respect for some of the techniques involved. I also personally know ppl who have been through the 'Church' of $cientology - and those who are still involved with it.. and those who aren't.

I don't know the 'reality' behind the whole story, but I've heard a stack of propaganda - from both sides. And I'm not about to defend such things (nor really add to them).

What I will say is quite simple.. I have experienced some of the techniques which are employed in scientology, and they are quite effective for what they are meant to do. no, I haven't gone through all of them (but will be sort of shortly). I am not involved with the Co$, though I have been. For various reasons (which don't quite reflect what has been written here, but certainly can be seen to relate to it), I have no desire to go near it again (I think I've mentioned that elsewhere... and will go read that thread shortly... )

I, having quite different beliefs to most scientologists, have a more interesting perspective on things. Such as - what if <insert deity of choice> looked down and heard LRH making his wager with ?Asimov (IIRC) about being able to make his own religion... and then actually gave him some truths?? I believe He/She/It/they have a sense of humour... and a sense of irony.

Am I 'truly clueless'.. who goes 'for that garbage'?? dont' think so... but then, I meditate, and ppl think that's rubbish too!


Slyt

[BlaqueKatt]

I find it amazing that there are that many truly clueless people that'll just go for that garbage...especially garbage spewed out by a madman.

Yes NOW we know from information gathered over time-however 14 years ago they almost got me. I was searching for meaning in life and stumbled across a book that "explained" the beliefs of scientology-I can understand how it can be attractive(especially to celebrities). The book explained that humans have a collective consciousness-and that if we let down the barriers of our mind we would all share knowledge. They explained this is why so many people "remember" being Cleopatra in a former life, or some other famous historical person-through the collective consciousness we all were, we also all were a lowly peasant, but choose not to open our minds to that memory. It also states that once you are aware of this "collective consciousness" and work to eliminate the "walls of your mind" and reach out to others that have eliminated the walls, We are actually all God.

Tell an actor they are actually God(as in creator of the universe God), you don't think that would seem attractive? The bat-shiat crazy stuff doesn't come in until after you're hooked, and humans do not like to admit they've been duped-so they keep going deeper, hoping to be redeemed.

Look at how many people are still duped by the "nigerian money scam", or "Pyramid Schemes/Ponzi schemes*" most for increasing amounts, because they refuse to admit they've been duped, so they keep sending money.

*And pyramid schemes make you get your friends involved-I see Scientology as a pyramid scheme without cash payout-the payout is instead, you get to feel smug and superior(I'm God, and I know more than you pathetic mortals)-which to some is worth more than money.


Some experts have suggested that unregulated virtual world banks such as Second Life's Ginko Financial closely resemble Ponzi schemes. By February 2007, Ginko was noted by the Illinois Business Law Journal for offering interest in the range of 44% annually on virtual "bank accounts," with no real transparency in the entity's investment strategy.[24]

Ultimately, Ginko Financial declared itself insolvent in August 2007, reporting unpayable Linden Dollar deposits in the L$200,000,000 range (roughly $650,000 USD at current exchange rates).[25]

[Slytovhand]

While what you have said, BK, may be very much true (re: collective consciousness, "walls of mind", godhood, etc), it is no different than any other religion.

Collective consciousness is (IIRC) part of Jungian psychology, 'remembering' being Cleopatra or any other individual is pretty standard for any beliefs which incorporate reincarnation. And not wanting to admit being duped is a normal human reaction/response.

Being God is, to me, not overly much different (when looked at from the outside as a non-believer... just need to clarify that point before I get shot down in flames here...) from saying that you are part of the chosen people, or that because you follow a certain belief, you are saved while all the others aren't - and you get to feel smug and superior to the other ignorant masses.

Religion (of whatever context) has a tendency to play on people's egos. Especially if it's an organised religion. Whether it's positive reinforcement ('you are great and fantastic', etc) or negative ('if you don't do this, then you'll go to hell' etc), it's still 'duping' people.

I mean, when I look around at religion in general, I do wonder just what it is about scientology that comes under so much fire, in comparison to so many other religions out there - including (and probably especially) the 'mainstream' religions. When I look at them in a rational logical light, I really don't see it being any worse (though in some cases, better) than most other religions.

Can anyone explain that one to me??

Slyt

[BlaqueKatt]

I mean, when I look around at religion in general, I do wonder just what it is about scientology that comes under so much fire, in comparison to so many other religions out there<snip>

Can anyone explain that one to me??

Possibly because it tends to mirror the "traditional religions" and due to it's "youth" comparitvely(most other mainstream religions are 1000-2000 years old), look at the mocking Gallelio took for challenging the age-old belief that the Earth was center of the universe.

It's easier to tear apart and mock something that threatens your beliefs if it's newer-because it doesn't have the "history" and tradition yours does.

we'll look at it as if it were an institute of higher learning.

Harvard has been around since 1687, the university of WI has been around since 1848, MATC(Madison Area Technical College) since 1911, Herzing College since around 1970(not excatly sure on that)-I know people that have gone to all four for the same degrees, however the Harvard Grads mock the UW and MATC grads for going to an "inferior(read newer) school", and UW and MATC grads mock Herzing-when Herzing students flunk out they go to MATC and get on the dean's list-what does that tell you about the caliber of education from MATC vs Herzing(Herzing is also cheaper to attend)? Herzing the younger school is actually better-however since it doesn't have the history, and is cheaper people assume it's inferior.

Would you rather hire someone that graduated from Harvard Law at the bottom of the class or from UW at the top of their class? Most companies would choose the Harvard grad-even if the UW student knew more due to the prestige of the "historical school".


Same with most religion-the older religions have more "prestige" than the newcomer Scientology, so they mock the younger one.

Personally I don't like ANY organized religion(Buddhisim is NOT a religion*, it's merely a code of ethics, no doctrine, no God(s), no Dogma-and yes I get tired of telling people that)---as it encourages laziness and apathy(pray for a solution, as opposed to actually doing something or "it was God's will")

*Definition of Religion for those that want to argue:

re·li·gion
n.

1.
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

[CancelMyService]

Also Scientology is not a real religion, it's a pyramid scheme cooked up by a writer of bad science fiction who most likely had undiagnosed mental disorders which led the "church" he founded to have a hysterical fear of psychiatry that has led to even more people suffering.

People tend to giggle since it looks like only celebs with money to spare get fleeced, but there's been several cases of non famous folks who were conned into not only handing over money but also property like houses all in the name of being cleansed of their body thetans.

There's a reason more than a few countries keep a close watch on them or ban them outright: Scientology is a dangerous cult that demands its followers to spend large amounts of money to advance to higher levels and uses fear and intimidation to keep any doubters in check.