Would you pledge your virginity to your father?

[AFPheonix]

Whelp, here's to hoping a lot of these girls get the opportunity to go to a secular college somewhere far from home. Unfortunately, that kind of kid always has some energy to get out of their system after being repressed for so long. Yay for some fratboy at the first party she goes to. Not that Daddy has to know, unless he does a hymen inspection.....

[anriana]

Having sex is a huge ordeal emotionally (at least for girls, I can't speak for guys - since I have a uterus and all). Women DO bond with people they have sex with. It's how we're biologically programmed. It isn't something to be taken lightly - and Sex in the City is a big, fat, dirty LIE.

Or maybe your experience with sex represents your and some other women's experiences and Sex in the City represents a different group of women's experiences?

[AdminAssistant]

Or maybe your experience with sex represents your and some other women's experiences and Sex in the City represents a different group of women's experiences?

Perhaps. But I'm not crazy about this idea that women bed-hopping just like "all men" do (another lie) is somehow "empowering". Um, no. I have several friends who've tried to live that way, and they all ended up really depressed and sleeping with MORE men to try to relieve the depression. I tried to have a 'friends with benefits' relationship and put myself through hell - because I really fell for the guy.

And before anyone yells at me - I don't agree with the double-standard regarding men who sleep around vs. women who sleep around. If a woman can have a lot of casual sex without forming any emotional bonds, then more power to her. I just don't think it's really possible.

We were just talking about Sex in the City in class during a discussion of Helene Cixous and feminism and how there has been such a giant step backwards in television and film regarding positive female role models. But that's a different discussion.

[Boozy]

If a woman can have a lot of casual sex without forming any emotional bonds, then more power to her. I just don't think it's really possible.

It's entirely possible, and entirely normal and healthy.

Not all of a woman's sexual experiences will lead to emotional attachment. Just as not every sexual experience a man has is cold and detached. To say differently is just pigeonholing people, and that's inaccurate and unfair.

I'm with you on the "Sex and the City" thing. I have no problem with the casual sex. It's the vacuous materialism that annoyed me about that show. (I freely admit that I could only stomach a few episodes, so I'm not an expert.)

[MystyGlyttyr]

I find this no more stupid and/or annoying than any other reason people choose to have a "ball" or whatever other event.

That being said, I wouldn't have any issue attending one of these sorts of things with my father. If I, as a consenting adult, choose to allow him to "protect" my virginity (though he and I both know that I'm the far more capable of the two of us in that regard), that's between him and me. There's no creep factor to that. I actually kind of see it as a sort of honor for him, with me effectively saying "You're my dad and I accept that you always want to protect me, so I'll allow you to do that".

And I don't necessarily see anything wrong with a dad bringing a daughter who's too young to understand the chastity vow, if he's just bringing her so that they can dress up and she can play princess for a little while.

I guess it just doesn't seem so weird to me. The only thing that strikes me is the apparent lack of understanding on the parts of the girls in the story as to what exactly goes into sex outside marriage. I don't personally feel that I approve of it, as I simply don't see why it's so important to so many people, but I realize that it IS, and I can accept that. Some of these girls seem to even lack the ability to reach that realization, as though they've been brought up in the "all sex is rape" camp or something.

(Disclaimer, all this is being said by an asexual person so my understandings of the issues might be off kilter. It wouldn't be the first time I missed the point entirely.)

[AdminAssistant]

I'm with you on the "Sex and the City" thing. I have no problem with the casual sex. It's the vacuous materialism that annoyed me about that show. (I freely admit that I could only stomach a few episodes, so I'm not an expert.)

Yes, this we can agree on. I hate the whole, "Well, I'm a girl so I must love SHOES!! Lots and lots of expensive shoes with insanely high heels!" Er, no. It's rare that I'll spend more than $20-30 on a pair of shoes and pretty much all of my shoes are functional. I have black and brown boots, black and brown heels, black and brown loafers, tennis shoes (you get the idea). Stuff I wear over and over.

Not all women adore shopping and fashion and pink girly drinks. *bleah*

[Sylvia727]

If I, as a consenting adult, choose to allow him to "protect" my virginity (though he and I both know that I'm the far more capable of the two of us in that regard), that's between him and me.

The problem I have with it is the girls' lack of understanding. They cannot give informed consent if they have been raised in a household that suppressed accurate information about sex and sexual relationships. The article mentioned that most (or many, I don't feel like rereading all seven pages) of the girls in attendence were adolescents, right around the age when they start menstrating. That's a difficult age, and few adolescents are mature enough to make binding decisions about the rest of their life. Without access to the full story, how can they possibly make decisions that accurately reflect their own will?

[Shangri-laschild]

My worry is that this is something that should be done when the girls know what's going on. I worry about the girls that go with their dads before they even know what's going on and sign the paper. What happens if later on they decide they don't want to wait? What if their dad's decide to try to hold them to what they signed despite them not understanding any of it? I guess I could understand bringing the younger girls if it was just a bonding time and allowed them to be in what the parents thought of as a good crowd. Then, later when they were older, they could come back and actually sign the paper.

Granted the kind of father who did that is probably the kind of father who would do the same even if you hadn't ever signed anything. I don't think a girl should be made to feel like a whore if she decides to have sex before marriage and that's what a lot of religions like this can sometimes do. They push that idea on you and even if you decide that you don't agree, there's always that thought there from years of being pounded into your head.

But there is striking evidence that more than half of teens who take virginity pledges—at, say, rallies or events—go on to have sex within three years, according to findings of the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, the most comprehensive survey of teens ever taken. And 88 percent of the pledgers surveyed end up having sex before marriage. “No pledge can counter the fact that teenagers are, in fact, sexual beings postpuberty,” notes Cary Backenger, a clinical psychotherapist in Appleton, Wisconsin, who works with teens, including several who have taken virginity pledges. “You can’t turn that off.”

Disturbingly, the adolescent health study also found that STD rates were significantly higher in communities with a high proportion of pledgers. “Pledgers are less likely than nonpledgers to use condoms, so if they do have sex it is less safe,” says Peter Bearman, Ph.D., a Columbia University sociologist who helped design the study. For these teens, he believes, it’s a mind game: If you have condoms, you were planning to have sex. If you don’t, sex wasn’t premeditated, which makes it more OK. The study also found that even pledgers who remained virgins were highly likely to have oral and anal sex—risky behavior given that most probably didn’t use condoms to cut their risk.

The kind of mentality that goes into these a lot of times seems to be "teach them not to have sex" alone, instead of teach them all the menthods and give strong notice to the fact that not having sex is the best method.

[katie kaboom]

In addition, it keeps the tradition of courting alive because anyone who wants to be involved in a relationship with her has to get her dads permission, which when it is possible I think is a great idea

How in the world is that a great idea? I find it to be incredibly demeaning. Why would anyone think it is necessary to get their father's permission to date someone? Are we as women so used to being ordered around by men that we can't even be in a relationship with someone without having our father's permission? I have never in my life heard of a guy needing permission from his mother to have a girlfriend. So why should we have to have our father's permission? That is absolutely a double standard and if there is one thing i can't stand, it's double standards.

[katie kaboom]

Virginity until marriage.....way too much trouble if you ask me.

It's not even so much that it's too much trouble, it's just a bad idea all around. Let's face it, sex is a pretty big part of marriage. Now if you marry someone without ever having had sex with them, how do you know that that part of the marriage will be satisfying enough to sustain the rest of it?

It's the same as not living with a person before you marry them. How do you find out whether or not you two are compatible in, as well as out of, the bedroom if you don't experience these things together before marriage? I don't know about you guys, but i would much rather find out before marrying someone whether or not we're compatible than wait till after the wedding to find out we can't please each other and can't live together.

I just think there are too many outdated ideas floating around about the whole process of courtship and marriage. A lot of people need to get with the times. We live in a much different world than past generations did. Everything is more complicated...and that includes relationships and everything that surrounds them.

[Flyndaran]

It's not even so much that it's too much trouble, it's just a bad idea all around. Let's face it, sex is a pretty big part of marriage. Now if you marry someone without ever having had sex with them, how do you know that that part of the marriage will be satisfying enough to sustain the rest of it?
....

While I understand what you meant, your comment hit a little close to home.
I'm on such a high dose of medication, that despite having only one side effect it is still a doozy.
I have almost no sex drive. I have less than 5% of my previous level. The idea that without sex I cannot maintain my 10 year long, this halloween, relationship is scary and fundamentally wrong... at least according to my life partner.
Sex is a nice part of an adult relationship, but it is not, on its own, enough to destroy a REAL stable loving partnership anymore than major weight gains, or disfiguring accidents would.

[Norton]

It's the same as not living with a person before you marry them. How do you find out whether or not you two are compatible in, as well as out of, the bedroom if you don't experience these things together before marriage? I don't know about you guys, but i would much rather find out before marrying someone whether or not we're compatible than wait till after the wedding to find out we can't please each other and can't live together.

My fiance and I have been living together a few days shy of a year. What really suprised me was when some of his older relatives told me that they think we made the right choice by living together first, and that it was better than how things went in their day. I happen to agree.

My fiance didn't ask my father's permission before he proposed. Dad found out the time as Mom did the next day. My sister was suprised by this. "He's supposed to get Dad's permission first!" she said.

My response was "Why? Dad's not marrying him."

[anriana]

I would break off an engagement if my partner told me they had asked my father's permission first. I wouldn't want to be with someone who values my father more than me.

[katie kaboom]

While I understand what you meant, your comment hit a little close to home.

I'm sorry about that, i swear to you that wasn't my intention.

And i will give you credit...you brought up a point i hadn't thought about. So your particular situation would be an exception to the norm and i do apologize for not looking at it from that angle until right now.

But i still maintain that in most cases, sex is a huge part of marriage and committing to someone without knowing how that part of the relationship will work out is only asking for trouble.

[katie kaboom]

My fiance didn't ask my father's permission before he proposed.

Neither did mine, and quite frankly, if he had, i wouldn't marry him. But my fiance knew how i felt about that long before we were officially engaged. I need no one's permission to accept a marriage proposal...that decision is mine and mine alone.