I believe in Atheism...

[Flyndaran]

The universe just happens to exist in such a way as to allow us to exist. No shit! If it weren't, then we wouldn't be here to whine about it.

If I went to a family reuninion, am I allowed to marvel at how everyone seems to be related to me?

[Evandril]

If option A)... I'd say it's pretty unlikely that we'd have all this organised order.. as a one off. Winning lotto would have better odds than flipping a coin in comparison. And "It just is" doesn't add up to me... as Philip Davies said, there's something fishy going on.

The big thing with this...From what we can tell, the universe isn't very good at sustaining life...the odds are actually highly against it. The saving grace there is, there is SO much to the universe that anything that's merely 'insanely unlikely' has a reasonable chance of happening, someplace. (By life, I was talking about our type, btw...I've no clue about any other types it might be perfectly suited for )

[Flyndaran]

The big thing with this...From what we can tell, the universe isn't very good at sustaining life...the odds are actually highly against it. The saving grace there is, there is SO much to the universe that anything that's merely 'insanely unlikely' has a reasonable chance of happening, someplace. (By life, I was talking about our type, btw...I've no clue about any other types it might be perfectly suited for )

There is the old saying that god must love nothing because he made so darn much of it. Stuff is actually the insignificant impurity in such an otherwise beautiful hard vacuum.

[Evandril]

'Tis the one thing I find most amusing in 90% of the religions I know of...The same diety responsible for creating the whole universe...Is focusing their attention on one little world in it

[Jadedcarguy]

.....



Nope - don't buy it! That entire 'bullshit' post was one massive piss-off session.

Not intended to be. Look at the gods I listed. Most of them aren't believed in by anyone anymore, and the ones that are, well, Christians would say that they aren't real. Could I have used more tact? Sure, but then I wouldn't have gotten your attention.

I mean, it's one thing to say "I don't believe, and there's no evidence to support", and quite another to say "What you believe is total bullshit... and you're stupid to believe such things" (which is also a term you used).

Quote the post where I called anyone who believed differently than me stupid. Please. I'd love to read it.

I have used the word silly. I may have even said deluded. I can't recall saying stupid, though. So please quote the post where I did.

No, this has nothing to do with questioning of one's faith - this has to do with blatantly insulting someone just because they hold a different belief to you. This thread is a debate and discussion - not an insult session.....

This entire thread could be interpreted by me as an insult to atheism. I don't take it that way, but you want to take my pointing out the flaws in Xtianity or other religions as an insult? Why? Are you that thin skinned?

[Evandril]

This entire thread could be interpreted by me as an insult to atheism. I don't take it that way, but you want to take my pointing out the flaws in Xtianity or other religions as an insult? Why? Are you that thin skinned?

So far we've mainly said that the dictionary states one definition of atheism, but you've said you use a different one, as do most atheists. I do not believe a single person has used *any* derogatory terms towards your beliefs, all we've argued is how they should be classified.

Not intended to be. Look at the gods I listed. Most of them aren't believed in by anyone anymore, and the ones that are, well, Christians would say that they aren't real. Could I have used more tact? Sure, but then I wouldn't have gotten your attention.

Sorry, I know a few people who worship various gods you mentioned, and most of 'em more 'faithfully' than 90% of 'Christians'. Using insults to get attention is normally not a practice encouraged here, btw.

Quote the post where I called anyone who believed differently than me stupid. Please. I'd love to read it.

I have used the word silly. I may have even said deluded. I can't recall saying stupid, though. So please quote the post where I did.

To me, 'silly' and 'deluded' are insults...and saying someone who does not believe as you do requires insulting...*shrugs* That's one of the *MAIN* reasons I have very little respect for xtains. If they are the type of people you want to model your behavior after...

[Jadedcarguy]

So far we've mainly said that the dictionary states one definition of atheism, but you've said you use a different one, as do most atheists. I do not believe a single person has used *any* derogatory terms towards your beliefs, all we've argued is how they should be classified.



Sorry, I know a few people who worship various gods you mentioned, and most of 'em more 'faithfully' than 90% of 'Christians'. Using insults to get attention is normally not a practice encouraged here, btw.

Actually, most dictionary definitions of atheism are pretty good, it's the ones that say we're 100% sure that I disagree with.

As far as your friends worshiping some of the gods on the list, I mentioned that some of them were still worshiped, didn't I? But from an atheist and Xtian perspective, none of them are real. Can we agree on that? Your friends can worship their cat for all I care. That's their prerogative.

To me, 'silly' and 'deluded' are insults...and saying someone who does not believe as you do requires insulting...*shrugs* That's one of the *MAIN* reasons I have very little respect for xtains. If they are the type of people you want to model your behavior after...

So then we agree that I didn't call anyone stupid? I don't think anyone who disagrees requires insulting. The list was posted in response to the misperception that I was only going after one god.

And no, I don't model my behavior after them. You won't catch me knocking on your door on Saturday trying to convince you of anything, nor voting on what you can or can't do in private and with whom.

Start a thread about atheism, though, and I will be in it.




-EDIT-


I've been thinking about this thread off and on this evening. The more I thought about it, the more I came to realize that no one has the right not to be offended or insulted by someone else's viewpoint. Not you, not me, no one.

I have pointed out several times in this thread that I didn't come in here to offend any one or any belief system in particular, but I knew that because of the viewpoint I hold, it would offend someone. No escaping that. I have said that I think religion is silly, delusional, irrational even. I stand by those statements. If it pleases you, call me a heathen and tell me I'm going to Hell. It doesn't bother me. My derision of your beliefs(or your friends beliefs) is not a personal attack on you or your friends. It's my opinion.

Whether you pick Xtianity, atheism, Buddhism, Jainism(please don't, or at least agree to bathe), Hinduism, Judaism, Mithraism, or any other -ism or-anity, The Bears or the Packers, the Raiders or the Niners, Manchester United or Chelsea, someone on the "other side" is going to call you an idiot. Can you deal or are you going to cry?

Like I said, no one has the right not to be offended. I will respect your right to believe in any asinine thing you wish, but if I think it's silly or delusional, I won't respect the belief itself. That's life.

That being said, I think I'm done with this thread. Any further and it's going to turn into name calling and character assaults, and no one needs that. Good day.

[Slytovhand]

The 'stupid' comment came from:

It equates a completely different kind of belief and faith than religion is based on with calling someone stupid for having it. Two very different things.

and all that followed with :

Are you actually implying that believing in something that science has yet to prove (and, according to this forum, doesn't even have the 'right' to even look into) is 'stupid'? (or am I misinterpreting that sentence??)

.. and others.

So, hopefully, 'stupid' has been misconstrued....

The more I thought about it, the more I came to realize that no one has the right not to be offended or insulted by someone else's viewpoint. Not you, not me, no one.

Well, this is very true. How one expresses that viewpoint. It seriously pisses me to hear Xtians deride any other religion (especially if they use terms like 'nonsense' or 'ridiculous'... pots & kettles anyone.???). Saying "I don't believe because..." is cool. Just labelling it as "crap" etc is emotive. Emotive isn't good

someone on the "other side" is going to call you an idiot

Yeah... but they're intending to be insulting, not hold a debate...

Start a thread about atheism, though, and I will be in it.

I thought we did...??

This entire thread could be interpreted by me as an insult to atheism.

Actually, this thread started as definitions of words... it just ended up slightly skewed - though related. So, we kept going (as seemed appropriate). No one was being called silly (or even stupid) in relation to that re-defining.

If I went to a family reuninion, am I allowed to marvel at how everyone seems to be related to me?

Ah... but, you weren't invited to a family reunion... to recreate (ha!) the analogy, it'd be more like you just decided to go overseas (or different planet), ended up in someone's home, and then just happened to find all of the people there were your relatives.. and all of them just chose to be there at that time and place with no forethought or planning... or discussion with anybody else.

Closer to statistics, if you win lotto once, you think yourself lucky. If you happened to win it 10 times in a row, you'd be highly suspicious of the organisers. If lotto was only going to be drawn for those 10 times only, and you happen to win all 10 times - then what do you think??

The big thing with this...From what we can tell, the universe isn't very good at sustaining life...the odds are actually highly against it. The saving grace there is, there is SO much to the universe that anything that's merely 'insanely unlikely' has a reasonable chance of happening, someplace.

Not, apparently, true. There's this issue known as 'physics' which might take exception to some things... like square circles, my coffee instantaneously turning into a fish with no specific cause, etc. It's the physics of the universe I'm looking at with my ... 'belief'.

Which thus follows:

'Tis the one thing I find most amusing in 90% of the religions I know of...The same diety responsible for creating the whole universe...Is focusing their attention on one little world in it

Totally agree! I really don't understand all this personal god stuff. I do, however, believe that there is more to this universe than meets the eye (or scanner, or radar dish...). Some of that includes beings and entities that are willing to support our journey through this thing called 'life'... hopefully, as we humans are towards other beings (once we've got our shit together). Some choose to call them 'gods'... I'm a bit loathe to use that word.

The universe just happens to exist in such a way as to allow us to exist. No shit! If it weren't, then we wouldn't be here to whine about it.

You know, I've heard that line a few times over the years. And I just realised tonight how irrelvant it is... sure, it slightly alters the odds towards favouring life, but has no effect on the fact that the universe has it's physics, and they work.

[Jadedcarguy]

This is part of a PM I sent to Slytovhand that he thought I ought to post in here.

I have a tendency to be very blunt and no-punches-pulled when it comes to topics like this, as I'm sure you've noticed.

You're right, the 'stupid' was misconstrued. My parents and grandparents, aunts and uncles, some cousins, all still Xtian. I don't think they're stupid, I just think that they want the comfort that belief can bring(which is why it's so prevalent) and are unwilling to examine it critically. That certainly doesn't make them stupid.

Like I said, I can be very blunt and lack sensitivity to someone else's feelings when I call religion bullshit. Not trying to be a dick, but there ya go. I have pretty thick skin due to high school and the like not being my "best years", so I can easily forget that others may take offense. That being what it is, I will sometimes call someone an ass for doing what they do without thinking that it's a deep seated part of their identity. Not trying to be a dick, but again, there ya go.

Hopefully this will 'clear the air' somewhat. If anyone thought I was trying to be a jerk or piss others off, I wasn't and hopefully this explanation will help you see where I'm coming from.

[Boozy]

I think that should conclude the discussion on that particular tangent. I don't believe anyone meant to call anyone else names.

But this is nevertheless a good opportunity for a few reminders: Debate the point and not the poster. If you feel someone isn't doing that, please report the post.

Thanks guys. Carry on.

[Slytovhand]

Yeps

But, I have actually thought a bit more about that, and the entire thread, especially in relation to both the 'BS' and 'this thread is an insult to me' bits...

It shows just how intrinsic our beliefs are to us, and our identity. Basically, what you believe is a large part of who you are. So, attack my beliefs - attack me (is the way it's seen). After all, just try changing your beliefs. (there are a couple of processes - and books - on the subject of not identifying with them, and not attaching to them).