The Pope said what??

[Pixilated]

Among other things, he said, "To say that you can kill in the name of God is blasphemy."

This was during a homily on Wednesday in which Pope Francis also urged Christians to accept the good works that atheists perform, and condemned those who try to drive a wedge between believers and non-believers.

Am I still on the same planet??

[Kheldarson]

Most local priests (that I've been to. So mileage may vary) have been saying this kind of stuff for years. Pope John Paul II said similar. I'm sorry Benedict didn't.

Of course, not all who listen will hear, unfortunately...

[fireheart17]

Most local priests (that I've been to. So mileage may vary) have been saying this kind of stuff for years. Pope John Paul II said similar. I'm sorry Benedict didn't.

Of course, not all who listen will hear, unfortunately...

No shit.

Recently there was a piece condemning the comparison of gay marriage to the Stolen Generation (short version: Aboriginal kids were removed from their families for petty reasons under the belief that the whitefellas could look after them better) and some of the comments seemed to argue about the whole fact that those who accepted Jesus Christ were being condemned and oppressed.

-.-

[Kheldarson]

No shit.

Recently there was a piece condemning the comparison of gay marriage to the Stolen Generation (short version: Aboriginal kids were removed from their families for petty reasons under the belief that the whitefellas could look after them better) and some of the comments seemed to argue about the whole fact that those who accepted Jesus Christ were being condemned and oppressed.

-.-

Not quite on topic, but things like the Stolen Generation make me feel better/worse for knowing that human stupidity isn't limited to one country (seeing as we had our own disastrous "re-education" program here in the States).

But yeah, I recently had an argument about the topic with my uncle who tried to use religion, economics, and moral bigotry to back his point.

I'm still wondering how gay marriage oppresses Christians.

[Panacea]

Among other things, he said, "To say that you can kill in the name of God is blasphemy."

This was during a homily on Wednesday in which Pope Francis also urged Christians to accept the good works that atheists perform, and condemned those who try to drive a wedge between believers and non-believers.

Am I still on the same planet??

This position of the Church actually is not new. But I'm glad the Pope is making such a stand on this issue. I think it's really important to recognize that 1) God does not command us to kill in His name, and 2) that atheists and non-Christians are good people and their contributions to a good and peaceful world are just as valuable and important as anyone else's. I think it goes a long way to reopening dialouge between Christians, those of other faiths, and those with no faith; it recognizes we are all human and worthwhile.

[Ginger Tea]

I'm always getting Atheism and Agnostic mixed up, but as I would forget five minutes after reading I've decided to not really check the official definition to see which one I am.

There was a not always working post where twins were berating a co worker for their lack of faith and said you don't kill anyone do you, 10 commandment's, that's god's doing (all the while one of the twins turns away to have a conversation about clocking a motor cycle or car breaking about 3 commandment's without checking).

I don't see the 10 commandment's as the word of God, I do see most of them as the early basis for laws though.
Thou shalt not kill, yeah pretty world wide that one.

Some of the other's I would have to look up, as I think the "Thou shalt not lay with a man as you would with a woman." sounds a bit to wordy to be carved into a stone tablet and is instead a bible passage.
Google has the answers though, but for this post it is not really needed.

We developed laws, some based off the ten commandment's others by how society has changed, but other non Christian countries developed similar laws without the church sending missionaries or full on holy war invasions.

We find out that killing is kinda a bad thing, so im not sure we really needed God or any deity to come down and tell us that.
The not always working post's twins blatantly said or implied we could not have morals without god.
Bullus to the shittus.

[Kheldarson]

I don't see the 10 commandment's as the word of God, I do see most of them as the early basis for laws though.
Thou shalt not kill, yeah pretty world wide that one.

Some of the other's I would have to look up, as I think the "Thou shalt not lay with a man as you would with a woman." sounds a bit to wordy to be carved into a stone tablet and is instead a bible passage.
Google has the answers though, but for this post it is not really needed.

You're combining the Ten Commandments and Leviticus.

The Commandments are a basic frame, if you will. Honor God and your parents. Don't lie, cheat, or steal. Don't sleep around or kill. Basically, love God and your fellow man.

Leviticus, though, relates to specific applications of God's law routed in terms of group survival. Specifically the survival of the Hebrews. Don't eat these, they make you sick. Do this for your elders and community to create better bonds. Don't sleep with things that don't increase the population.

The Ten Commandments still apply as good measures to our lives. Leviticus is more history; it shows what God's people did to survive.

[Pixilated]

*snip*

....some of the comments seemed to argue about the whole fact that those who accepted Jesus Christ were being condemned and oppressed.

-.-

The people who felt that way are going to love this further comment by the Pope: good deeds, not belief in Christ, are the basis for a person's salvation.

[Ginger Tea]

Yeah I thought the homosexual one wasn't a commandment, 75% sure but TBH my bible study involved watching the Charlton Heston movie as a kid, hell our RE teachers didn't do much for Christianity it was assumed cos I was white and English I was already knowledgeable and didn't need a refresher, so we learnt about ancient gods of The Egyptians, Greek's and Roman's.
Later on we delved into Norse, but not enough to know more than the name Odin and Thor after all these years, but my Norse mythology I learnt via the Asgards on SG1
I only knew of Loki due to the mask and the fact he likes to use the word quim in 12 rated movies.

I spent the longest time on Hindu and other Asian God's (mostly cos the ancient ones also got covered in history), though not Oriental ones, perhaps they were for the year I had changed schools.
But I could not say for certainty which religion is dominant for which country out of the big three of Hindu Muslim and Sikh.

[Kheldarson]

The people who felt that way are going to love this further comment by the Pope: good deeds, not belief in Christ, are the basis for a person's salvation.

Oh God, that's going to make some fundies very happy...*sigh*

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

I'm always getting Atheism and Agnostic mixed up, but as I would forget five minutes after reading I've decided to not really check the official definition to see which one I am.

I drink Dr. Pepper which is how I know I'm agnostic.

The people who felt that way are going to love this further comment by the Pope: good deeds, not belief in Christ, are the basis for a person's salvation.

I really like this Pope so far. He seems to get the more pragmatic reality of people who actually choose to have faith in a modern world and the kinds of dogma that actively repel them. It's also completely consistent since many Catholics only seem to be aware of the necessity of sacraments, but by their own teachings its really just God that extends grace and how the individual responds to it. So an atheist that does good works (assuming Catholics were right about god anyway) ends up fitting the definition of receiving salvation. The problem is, I'm not sure protestants kept that and in any event it's not said enough even amongst Catholics. Good on 'em.

[Kheldarson]

The problem is, I'm not sure protestants kept that and in any event it's not said enough even amongst Catholics. Good on 'em.

From my experience, a number didn't (hence my earlier comment). I've gotten to listen to how I'm evil and wrong for being Catholic because we supposedly teach that works alone and not grace save us. Which isn't the teaching.

Of course, those guys also believed you couldn't receive grace without belief in Christ so...

[Rageaholic]

Oh God, that's going to make some fundies very happy...*sigh*

Yup, just read some of the comments on the original article. Fundies would rather stick with the harmful view that human are inherently evil. These are the same assholes who hate on Mr Rogers for telling kids that they're worth something. It's why I hate fundies. They poison everything.

[HYHYBT]

I drink Dr. Pepper which is how I know I'm agnostic.

Huh?

(You knew when you said that someone would ask, so please don't let my vague phrasing stop you from explaining.)

[Panacea]

I'm always getting Atheism and Agnostic mixed up, but as I would forget five minutes after reading I've decided to not really check the official definition to see which one I am.

Atheists believe there is no divine being (God or gods) of any kind. Agnostics doubt the existence of a divine being but refrain from definitively rejecting one.

A-theist: without god.
A-gnostic: Without knowledge

I don't see the 10 commandment's as the word of God, I do see most of them as the early basis for laws though.
Thou shalt not kill, yeah pretty world wide that one.

Some of the other's I would have to look up, as I think the "Thou shalt not lay with a man as you would with a woman." sounds a bit to wordy to be carved into a stone tablet and is instead a bible passage.

Parts of the 10 Commandments have similarity with many other early legal systems. Thou shalt have no other God before me is somewhat unique to Judaism (and Christianity) since most other religious systems of the day aknowledged the existence of other gods.

The 10 Commandments are actually the first 10 commandments of the 600 or so of the Jewish legal system. Technically, all of the laws were brought down from the mountain, carved into stone by God himself, but Moses broke the tablets so we don't have them anymore.

The laying with a man as with a woman passages (there are 2 of them) are in Leviticus (Lev 18:22 and Lev 20:13), which is essentially the how to practice the law and religion chapter of the Jewish Bible. Christians are not bound by Jewish law in Leviticus (Matt 22:34-40, Mark 7:14-19, Col 2:16-17). It's important because many Christians use Leviticus to justify homophobia.

The not always working post's twins blatantly said or implied we could not have morals without god.
Bullus to the shittus.

While I don't agree with the twins words or actions, they are partially right in that those who believe in God do believe that morality (the proper way of behaving) is inspired by God and God's laws. However, they go too far by implying or saying that a person who does not believe in God cannot be moral. They can.

The people who felt that way are going to love this further comment by the Pope: good deeds, not belief in Christ, are the basis for a person's salvation.

What the Pope said has been taken out of context a bit. What hasn't been addressed is the concept of grace. You must still have grace to be saved. What gets over looked by many fundamentalist Christians is God gives grace where He wills, and simply believing in Christ is not always enough to obtain grace. We really don't know how God will judge any of us. The Pope is acknowledging a fundamental truth: God may grant grace to non-believers who are righteous people, ie good moral people who do good things to help others.

I really like this Pope so far. He seems to get the more pragmatic reality of people who actually choose to have faith in a modern world and the kinds of dogma that actively repel them. It's also completely consistent since many Catholics only seem to be aware of the necessity of sacraments, but by their own teachings its really just God that extends grace and how the individual responds to it. So an atheist that does good works (assuming Catholics were right about god anyway) ends up fitting the definition of receiving salvation. The problem is, I'm not sure protestants kept that and in any event it's not said enough even amongst Catholics. Good on 'em.

I like Pope Francis as well. I think he's taking the Church on the right path.

It's funny how Protestants complain about how Catholics have got it wrong, yet many of their own beliefs still spring from the original Catholic traditions. The idea that you had to accept Jesus (ie be a Christian, specifically a Catholic Christian) actually didn't come into vouge until the 12th century . . . but this idea was retained after Protestants broke off from the Catholic Church.

Vatican II changed that for Catholics, but unfortunately there are many Catholics that continue to resist it. What Francis said really isn't all that extraordinary; he's simply repeating something the Church has been teaching for 50 years . . . unfortunately that message got a bit lost.