When do people cross the line into pushiness?

[Rageaholic]

Here's a good question, when do people become too obnoxious with their religious beliefs (or lack there of)?

For me personally, I get really angry when people use their beliefs to manipulate me. Telling me I'm going to hell, I'm a sinner, I have no morals in any way, judgment day, ect ect (either by preachy apologetics or just outright saying it) tends to piss me off.

On the other hand, I'm not going to go berserk because someone says "God bless" or offers their prayers to someone in need. If someone is trying to offer comfort without pushing an agenda, why get all upset? The only exception I can think of is after a tradegy when someone acts like it's a miracle that one person survived. Yeah, it's great, but what about the others who weren't so lucky? That just really bugs me for some reason.

[s_stabeler]

depends on what context the 'miracle' is said to be- miraculous survival has been used to describe someone found alive when rescuers thought there were no more survivors. in that context, it's OK. If you are seriously claiming divine intervention, then yeah... keep it to those who believe in your deity, please. I don;t want to hear about how X survived just because they were sufficiently religious.

[HYHYBT]

To me, the line is essentially at knowing people aren't interested in hearing about it and continuing anyway... and includes an exception for proportionate responses to people being pushy about their own views.

[Rageaholic]

depends on what context the 'miracle' is said to be- miraculous survival has been used to describe someone found alive when rescuers thought there were no more survivors. in that context, it's OK. If you are seriously claiming divine intervention, then yeah... keep it to those who believe in your deity, please. I don;t want to hear about how X survived just because they were sufficiently religious.

Claiming divine intervention is what gets me riled up. I feel it's a huge slap in the face to those who didn't survive.

I should also add this, I despise the doctrine of a literal hell. It's not only unjust, but it's psychologically destructive. When douchebags like Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron try to make people think they deserve hell...

[Ginger Tea]

Sometimes using the word miracle is just a phrase, used akin to luck.
It's quicker to say that than how fortunate they are to not be harmed due to everything etc.

[Bloodsoul]

Now I'm reminded of the game Golden Sun: The Lost Age where the "Wise One" asks the party at the end, "well, what if some miracle occurred that prevented you from igniting the (magical) lighthouses?"

And then a three-headed dragon appears.

Who's really your dead parents.

[senor boogie woogie]

I was in South Korea eating some fast food. Some joker sat in my booth and asked in English....

"Do you know that Jesus is the Son of God?"

I went "yes, I do."

Sort of an awkward silence.

Me asking him what he wanted and told him to get lost.

[Panacea]

Sometimes using the word miracle is just a phrase, used akin to luck.
It's quicker to say that than how fortunate they are to not be harmed due to everything etc.

Intention really is everything. Someone saying God bless all the time can get a little wearing after awhile, but the intent is usually harmless so I ignore it.

Ditto for saying, "It's a miracle." I really don't give that a second thought. I don't think anyone means it as a slap to someone who DID get hurt in things like natural disasters or other mass disasters. While I don't think God picks winners and losers that way, I also don't get worked up by people who, in all innocence, make statements that essentially mean that.

Crossing the line means constantly pushing religion in someone's face all the time by: making suggestions they are sinners and going to hell, leaving religious literature on the stoop or on a work desk, making left handed remarks about someone's lack of faith, or pushing their religious beliefs into other people's civil rights, or into public education.

Crossing the line also includes things like vandalism or openly denigrating the religious viewpoints of other people. This serves the purpose of dehumanizing people and makes it easier to both hate them and justify continued acts of verbal or physical abuse. It is always wrong.

[Andara Bledin]

I have something to add to this one.

I have a friend who has rather strong views on religion. He hates it and anything to do with it, and if he can blame something on it he will. It's utterly irrational and a source of contention between us because I won't let him get away with this sort of irrational behavior because I know he's generally intelligent and smart.

So, anyway, the other night he complained about a manager at a place he works talking to someone (an employee or customer, I can't recall which) with a bible in his hand, expounding on how beautiful some of the verses were. And he went off on a rant about how he shouldn't have to hear that shit.

Needless to say, I didn't let that stand and he eventually backed down because when I pressed him, he couldn't come up with a single reason why it should even matter to him that he happened to overhear someone talking about religion other than his own irrational behavior over it. It didn't help that when I made it personal and made it about visual instead of audible things, he tried to claim that wasn't the same.

Sure, if people get in your face, that's not cool. But if people are over in their own space doing their own thing and you happen to not like that thing, then leave. You're the one with issues, not them.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

For me the line between obnoxious and innocent is the amount of willful disregard that is occurring. For me, "god bless", "a miracle", etc. then to be how people have had their speech framed. So it doesn't bug me, but I can see it bugging someone else. Saying "I have no belief in god" or "I find passages of <insert holy book here> beautiful" are just personal opinions. That's totally cool. Hell, I say god damn it not because I expect god to damn anyone, but rather it's just something I picked up. If someone tells me it offends them and I believe it actually does, I'll generally temper it. I'm not that married to the phrase.

It's when it becomes "religion is the major source of human suffering" or illogical crap like "if you keep having sex with people you're attracted to, god is going to punish you." Essentially, displaying a complete lack of understanding about human behavior and shoving it in a philosophical box is when one becomes obnoxious. And it's really not just religion, it's also politics and sports rooting interests.

[Ginger Tea]

So your friend wasn't the one involved in the conversation with the bible wielder, they could just walk away and not be noticed.
There are probably dozens of passages that can be taken without faith, I wouldn't know cos I don't read the bible, I was given one (a need a magnifying glass to read it mind) in June, up till that point I had no need or desire to have or read one and I am not sure where it is at the moment, I think my elephant is reading it now I have wrestled my Android Netrunner cards from where he hid it.

It's nice to be able to just walk away from conversations you are not a part of or want to hear, be thankful it wasn't a TMI squick whilst you are in the next booth trying to eat a meal.
Not that it's happened to me mind, I think the last time I had a meal with captain dickhead I was probably the source of any surrounding discomfort that may or may not have arisen.

Edit:
for clarification I do just mean bible held in hand when I typed Bible wielder, not to make it seem like another form of Bible thumper.

But I might just get a bible cover bound over a large Sudoku book and carry it with me just to see if anyone gives me grief for holding a bible in public.

[Teysa]

I'll open this by saying that I am a Christian with a very strong Faith. However, I believe in being a good example more than pushing my faith on others. I try to treat everyone courteously, do my job to the best of my ability, be nice to and tip the servers when I go out to eat, etc. I don't leave tracts out willy nilly nor do I go knocking on doors.

I find the people who are pushy with their religion obnoxious and a turn off. It's just as annoying as those pushy telemarketers.

[cindybubbles]

I've had three people try to push their religion onto me. Two were strangers and one was a friend. As a Catholic, I believe that it's not our job to force people into converting; it's better to just continue our daily Christian lives, keep the doors to God open and let them come to us.

[Andara Bledin]

I'm the sort of Christian who, when people I know learn that I am tend to respond with, "Oh, really? I thought you were an atheist." Because one of the tenets of my faith is that people need to come to their own conclusions about what works for them.