Fred Phelps is Dead!!!

[Kaylyn]

I read one article where the church requested that no one protest the funeral. Then I heard where they're not having a funeral at all. If they DO wind up holding a funeral after all, I believe their request was to incite people INTO protesting so they can use it to their own advantage. So, yeah, despite how angry their statement makes people "we were just doing what God wanted us to do to protect the country from f*gs and you should leave us alone" I think we should do EXACTLY THAT, as others here have said, and ignore them, and even throw in an "oh, he died? didn't realize that..." when it comes up.

[Sarah Valentine]

I completely agree, all they want is attention to spread their hate. However if we do leave them alone they'll probably whine and complain that no one picketed the funeral, they'll always find something to complain about.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

He's done more good for the LGBT community then I think he or his family/church ever thought they did. Because those who were on the fence didn't want to be associated with that guy or that church.

This is oddly the reason I find the hate for the man unwarranted with the caveat of, if he actually picketed your families funeral I totally get it.

His hate spewing idiocy did more to help LGBT causes pick up moderates, fence sitters, and even people on the other side by sinking the other side into absurdity than I think people want to give him credit for. But sometimes people need those absurd examples to "get it."

[Herebecause]

My first post here:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...-to-this-sign/

To summarize - at a recent WBC protest (maybe the first one after Phelps passing), counter protesters held up a sign that said 'sorry for your loss'. A member of the WBC responded by saying 'I don’t even know what they mean by what they are saying.'

[kamn]

Considering he was supposedly excommunicated before his death, it's not too much of a stretch to say that he was no longer welcome in his own church. In that respect the 'I don’t even know what they mean by what they are saying.' part makes sense...

[fireheart17]

Considering he was supposedly excommunicated before his death, it's not too much of a stretch to say that he was no longer welcome in his own church. In that respect the 'I don’t even know what they mean by what they are saying.' part makes sense...

Either that or they're so used to counter-protesters mocking them that they believed the sign to be mocking them. (ie "Sorry that you lost the fight against gay rights")

[Skunkle]

Uh oh! Here comes a typically long-winded skunkle post! I hope the "Sorry for your loss" was meant genuinely. And I don't think it ended up meaning much to the rest of the church.

There's no solid evidence yet that Phelps was excommunicated. Two of his sons who left years ago have said they have inside information. I'm not saying I doubt them, just that it's not officially confirmed. But the reason given isn't that he was too nice. The at-this-time hearsay goes like this: Shirley Phelps-Roper was kinda-sorta getting to be the front-person as Fred got older. Eight men in the church formed a "council of elders" with the intent of running things, and began to have spats with Shirley over internal affairs. Supposedly, Fred was excommunicated by these "elders" for trying to say, "the members of the church need to stop the infighting and be good to one another."

Yes, current info seems to be that there will be no funeral for Phelps. And wherever he is, I want to believe he's realizing he was wrong, and wishing other members of the church give up this crusade and find their path to true love of the world and its people, and not hatred-disguised-as-love, sooner.

On the hatred-disguised-as-love angle, I have a few observations. First, Westboro claim that their message of, "You're all going to burn in hell" is a message of pure love. If you truly care about another person who is a sinner, the most heartfelt expression of God's love, they say, is to tell them, "You're a sinner. Repent." Problem is, Westboro is a Calvinist church, and they seem to believe that only their members are God's chosen saved. Since, under Calvinist format (usually) those who are born saved CANNOT fall... and under the double-predestination form of Calvinism Westboro espouses, those who are not born saved cannot be saved, ever... What is the purpose of telling others this message? If it's not to save them (because that's impossible) and it's not to save you (you don't need anything more, you've got your non-refundable ticket) what IS its purpose?

Second, if Westboro members are the elect saved, and the elect saved KNOW with certainty - know in their minds and hearts - who they are, and that they are, what about people who leave the church? They claim that if you're not one of the chosen, it is impossible for you to understand and see that their path is the correct one. God has closed your heart and mind. Now, folks like Steve Drain (went to film a negative documentary on Westboro, then ended up joining the church) could possibly be accounted for; it'd be easy to claim that they knew the truth and were just denying it. But as for the other way around... If you are a member-- You know, love, believe and support the doctrine-- You are saved forever and you know it-- Your fellow church members know you are one of the elect-- and then you get disenfranchised and leave... Westboro seems to like to say that the deserters are damned. HOW?? According to your own doctrine, the states of saved and unsaved begin before birth, and are permanent. So if this person IS fallen... and you say you KNOW who is saved and who isn't... How on earth did you not already know they were fakes?

End result, though: Westboro is still attracting converts. Fred's death won't change much. Even if Shirley is driven out, it won't change much. We're stuck with these unfriendly people for a while yet.

[LewisLegion]

I read one article where the church requested that no one protest the funeral.

The article in question was a spoof. They are not planning to hold a funeral as they do not, as they put it, 'worship the dead.'

[Skunkle]

Yep, no funeral. That could be another possible reason why they seemed uninterested in the "sorry for your loss" sign, if they are the sort who see no reason to mourn, remember or consider the dead. "We don't worship the dead," though? News to Westboro: the slightest bit of respect for something or someone other than God does not constitute admiration and devotion on the level of idol-worship!

[s_stabeler]

Second, if Westboro members are the elect saved, and the elect saved KNOW with certainty - know in their minds and hearts - who they are, and that they are, what about people who leave the church? They claim that if you're not one of the chosen, it is impossible for you to understand and see that their path is the correct one. God has closed your heart and mind. Now, folks like Steve Drain (went to film a negative documentary on Westboro, then ended up joining the church) could possibly be accounted for; it'd be easy to claim that they knew the truth and were just denying it. But as for the other way around... If you are a member-- You know, love, believe and support the doctrine-- You are saved forever and you know it-- Your fellow church members know you are one of the elect-- and then you get disenfranchised and leave... Westboro seems to like to say that the deserters are damned. HOW?? According to your own doctrine, the states of saved and unsaved begin before birth, and are permanent. So if this person IS fallen... and you say you KNOW who is saved and who isn't... How on earth did you not already know they were fakes?

it's complicated, and, not being a believer in predestination, I am going by what I've heard, but how it works is that following God's will ( in WBC's case, by being part of the WBC) is evidence you are saved- thus, the people who left left because they were not truly destined for heaven, and those that convert to WBC clearly are destined for heaven, and had merely lost their way.

Yeah, I find it ridiculous myself.

[TheHuckster]

Yep, no funeral. That could be another possible reason why they seemed uninterested in the "sorry for your loss" sign, if they are the sort who see no reason to mourn, remember or consider the dead. "We don't worship the dead," though? News to Westboro: the slightest bit of respect for something or someone other than God does not constitute admiration and devotion on the level of idol-worship!

This might have been another similarly extreme church, but I recall WBC claiming any admiration of a role model besides Jesus constituted idol worship. If you look up to a celebrity, politician, or even someone in your family, it's sinful "idol worship."

They never really highlighted those beliefs, though. Their approach to everything is black-and-white "Do you support homosexuality anywhere above instituting capital punishment for homosexuality? Then you're going to hell."

[protege]

I've said it before. Instead of picketing Phelps...he should be ignored. Why give those assclowns any more attention? I'm not saying that their bigotry and hatred should be ignored, but they'll quietly go back into the woodwork on their own. Still, we can honestly say that Phelps' own hatred eventually consumed him...like it will for the rest of those losers.

[XCashier]

He died earlier today. Surprised no one has commented on it here yet. http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/20/us/wes...html?hpt=hp_t3

We did quite a lot of commenting on the sister site.

(Is it wrong of me that I started mentally singing the title of this thread to that song from "Oklahoma!"? "Fred Phelps is dead, poor Fred Phelps is dead..." )

Am I sorry he's dead? I'm sorry that he wasted his life with hatred and bile in his heart. I'm sorry that he never truly understood the Gospel he claimed to follow. I'm sorry that he raised his family with cruelty and the chickens truly came home to roost as he was excommunicated from his own church and will not even get a funeral.

The best we can do is learn from his life and try to be the best people we can be.

Forgiveness isn't simply for the forgiven one: lt's also for the forgiver. Specifically, it says "I will not carry hate for you".

And for a man like Phelps, that's probably the worse thing ever.

Well said.

[Rageaholic]

And these fuckers are still at it. They're next target is the Jewish Community Center.

Classy, real classy.