A recovering Christian (long, and a request for advice)

[Jaden]

Hi. It's me again. You know the drill, I'm just here to bother you all, as I do every few months.

I wasn't sure where this should go, but religion seems topically accurate.

So, those of you who may have known me waaaay back when might remember that I was an extremely conservative Christian. Please do not look at my earliest posts on this forum, or any of my posts on CS from like 7 years ago. I am extremely embarrassed about the person I was back then, and I kind of hate myself for all of that, but anyways, I'm not really here to talk about that.

I'm only bringing it up to underscore just how much I've changed since then. Anybody who knows me now knows that I can be generously described as a very liberal agnostic. At the very least, I don't really know what I believe anymore, in a religious sense, I just know it's not at all what I once did.

And, if you know me, you know that I am extremely depressed and have been for years. I've been realizing in recent months that part of the reason for that is that I've slowly grown out of my religion. I was raised in a very conservative, Protestant evangelical Christian household, and when I say evangelical Christian, I mean that specific brand of American Christian that believes that the earth is only 6,000 years old, that evolution is a lie, and that Left Behind is literally prophetic and going to happen. Yeah.

I'd say I started really growing away from that about, oh, 5 years ago - I actually remember the article I read that really made me start rethinking things. It was a slow process from there, and even as short of a time as two years ago, I would still have described myself as religious, though not dogmatic.

So but anyways, enough rambling. The point I'm trying to get at here is that for about 20 years of my life, my identity was extremely wrapped up in my religious beliefs, which, due to their nature, also crossed over with my political beliefs. That was what I leaned on - that God was my reason for existence, that everything else was meaningless, and that only the things I was told mattered.

But I was deceived. Or at least, I feel that way.

I was hurt deeply by the church - they were never there for me when times got rough. They would give me a smile, an empty promise of prayer (as opposed to actually fucking helping me or talking to me) and an assurance that Jesus loved me. But eventually it got to the point where it wasn't enough - I knew Jesus loved me, or I thought I did at the time, but I needed to know that I was loved by people. And I just never got that from anybody. They didn't care about me as anything other than a vessel for their agenda. And eventually, Jesus didn't love me either, and then, he didn't exist as a deity, as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe He did, maybe He didn't, I obviously don't know, and I'm not here to argue about it. I just want you to know where I'm coming from. I stood at the edge of the universe, looked into the face of God, and I saw nothing. And it devastated me, and I haven't ever fully recovered from it. My identity, my belief system, everything I ever knew to be true, is just gone, and the only thing I was ever taught to hold on to, well, I can't hold on to it anymore. Now all I'm left with from that original catechism is "everything is meaningless". Obviously, that's not a philosophy that I can hold on to and retain my sanity and integrity, not with the way my brain works, anyways.

SO BUT ANYWAYS, again, I need to get back on point. I know a lot of other people have very similar stories. I need to know - how do I regain control of my life? How did you manage to move on from this and find some meaning again? Obviously you can't fix my problems for me, but some advice or a starting point would be nice. Can anybody give me some guidance, some help, or some words of wisdom? I really need it. Thanks.

[Rapscallion]

Wisdom? Wish I could.

Been an atheist for a long time, though, so I can only speak from personal experience. I've yet to see any proof that there is a deity of any kind, or hear of any decently corroborated evidence.

What I can say is that you don't necessarily have to have a goal in life. Just get out there and enjoy yourself as best you're able. Walk up a hill, stand there, and just appreciate the view. Relish the ability to sense the rain on your face. Live in the certainty that you'll never have that moment again, so either make the most of it, or relax and let time slip through you and accept the fact that you cannot change that aspect of being.

Search for what makes you happy. I'm still looking, but I've found some pretty good diversions along the way.

Rapscallion

[Kheldarson]

Speaking as a Catholic who's had her own share of ups and downs, I'd talk to someone. A therapist, a rabbi, pastor or priest from another branch that's not your home church, anybody.

And I'm not saying that as a trying to get you to recover your faith attempt. What I'm reading in your post (and only you can tell if this is right or not) is that you're feeling alone and unmoored right now. The only way to fix that is to find someone or something to help you get your bearing. Nixing God for now, you can find other things that can help you find your balance.

Hope it gets better

[BlaqueKatt]

SO BUT ANYWAYS, again, I need to get back on point. I know a lot of other people have very similar stories. I need to know - how do I regain control of my life? How did you manage to move on from this and find some meaning again? Obviously you can't fix my problems for me, but some advice or a starting point would be nice. Can anybody give me some guidance, some help, or some words of wisdom? I really need it. Thanks.

Religious trauma syndrome is something that a LOT of deconverted people go through, and what your describing sounds quite similar.

how to recover from a christian upbringing
waking up-a guide to spirituality without religion

Recovering from religion
good resource-has recommended reading

the not alone project


Atheist nexus

A clearing house of sorts for those leaving religion-several websites and other information

and if you're on twitter there's a very large humanist/atheist/agnostic community.

[SkullKing]

I don´t have much wisdom to share,I am not sure I should post a sit may confuse you abit, but something that helps me a lot is balancing two different mindsets.

But the Neil Gaiman once gave advice that helped me a lot in tough times.:

"Something that worked for me was imagining that where I wanted to be ... was a mountain. A distant mountain. My goal.

And I knew that as long as I kept walking towards the mountain I would be all right. And when I truly was not sure what to do, I could stop, and think about whether it was taking me towards or away from the mountain."


Conversely, It is very important to find joy in the things you do, in a work well done, no matter how trivial, and also in non-productive things. An evening spent playing around or just walking and taking in the scenery, may not seem productive, but if it gave joy, it was worthwhile.

In other words, try to find your mountain, but try to find joy on the journey and on the rest stops.

What things give you joy?

What do you wan tin life?

This are simple questions but don´t not necessarily have simple answers, and if they do have simple answers, getting them from yourself may be hard or complicated. But I believe your answers are important, and would like to hear them.


One bit of advice I would give: If possible, try to find a physical activity you like and commit to it, walking, running, Martial arts sports. It is not for everyone, but I have seen it help a lot of people, myself included.

Feel free to PM me anytime.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Long before I really parsed religion to any degree, I remember the reworking of that catchism by Joss Whedon which twisted it in Angel (god I still love that show) to "if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."

I've never really taken it in the same context as the show which was specifically about a character who fights for good because that's what he chooses to do. But I've always interpreted it more broadly as we own the things we do and that's it. I think it works perfectly well in a Religious context as well since by subtracting the promise of reward one still does good, that's kind of the point.

The part that speaks to me though is where you square in on religious neighbors for not being there for you. Just keep in mind that is normal behavior for all but the closest friends (and even then people stumble). I'm not even suggesting don't leave religion, but I am saying you've stumbled upon what is an uncomfortable truth about human beings in general. By and large acquaintances will watch acquaintances burn figuratively and literally if stopping it makes them too uncomfortable, so sayeth the majority of human history which is full of genocide, land grabs (native americans were trading partners before they were dispossessed), and people constantly moving away in search of a new families totally unmoored by people who are supposed to care for them. It is not influenced by overall religion, race, or specific creed. And a lot of groups that are fiercely protective of their own are blithely unconcerned or complicit in the misfortune of others. See: nationstates, small religious enclaves, or even western "social justice" movements which are full of apologizing later for oversights they made previously. People care about what they care about, often not more than that.

That's the kind of knowledge that when you realize it, when you start seeing the seams in society, when you start seeing the political agendas behind routine interactions... that's when you sort of just need to start step back and only worry about your own path. So I'll agree maybe speak with someone if that will help you but realize ultimately it is you that will have to come to terms with the world around you and no one else has that answer.

My more general advice would be seek out new groups of friends and new experiences. Like moves? Join or found a movie watching group. Like baseball? and so on. It doesn't fix things but it expands your social pool. It's easier to find a few good friends than the elusive "always there for you" type. Odds of having help increase the higher that number is.

"Always there fore you" often exists either because you knew them very young OR you have stuck through something very extreme with them. The loyalty is earned and as luck would have it they also give what they get. A lot of "always there for you" friendships are never actually tested. Being a jerk sometimes or having a fight happens to everyone. They aren't tests.

I dunno if any of that helps or not, but I hope some if it is useful. If not it's just a random ranting. My answers may not be your answers or someone else's answers but they work for me. In the end, that's all I ask my brain to do.

[crashhelmet]

My initial answer is one that is not liked by many people, but it's simple. If you want to take back control of your life, then take back control of your life.

Do the things that you want to do. Might be easiest to start with goals.

You don't have to have long-term, life-long, meaning-of-life goals. Start small. Start short-term. Baby steps. Crawl before you walk. Walk before you run. If you try to run before you crawl, you're going to have a bad time.

You can either wait for opportunity to knock and present itself, or you can go out and find or create that opportunity.

Want to learn how to do something? Take a class, read a book, download a video, or simply practice with what you have available to you. Be creative.

Want to go somewhere? Start planning and saving.

Current friends don't like what you're into or want to get into? Find a new support group using social networking like Facebook groups, Meetup, Reddit, etc.

Regardless of what choices you make, or directions you take, make sure that they are yours and not someone else's. Otherwise you risk being in the same position you were 7 years ago. It might not be centered around religion, but it could be the same none the less.

[Aethian]

I'm a odd one. I believe that all religions are the same story just altered to the people they were given to. BUT I will say I don't believe in ONE God or god. When at work I will sometimes whisper to Hermes. At home I'll give silent pleas to whomever I feel can help the most...

At the same time I believe in Science I don't think supreme beings made the world or made us in the gardens.

[Jaden]

Thanks, everybody. I have majorly distanced myself from my more religious friend group over the years - I have no problem in general with being friends with people who still follow my old religion, and a couple of them are fine by me, but most of them just want to convert me back, and I don't have the patience or the grace for it right now. You know what they say about the recovering alcoholic judging the drinker the most harshly. That's basically how I feel, but at least I'm aware of it and understand that it's best to just avoid the topic with my friends so I don't lose my cool and hurt somebody's feelings.

As for goals...well, this could be a whole other topic in and of itself, but I'll try to keep it short. I honestly don't have any idea what to do with myself, in general. I don't have any goals. People don't believe that - they always say "C'mon, everybody has dreams. There must be something you want." But all of my goals have only ever been based in religion or based in relationships. Those are the only things my identity has ever had to cling to. And after strings of emotionally abusive relationships and/or being cheated on, and, well, basically getting out of an emotionally abusive relationship with the church, my head is reeling. It's like I'm wandering through a forest shrouded in mist, and I can't see my hand in front of my face. All I want is to find a clear path out, but it seems impossible. So my only goal, per se, can only be accomplished by having other goals. And I don't know what to do with that. I doubt anybody does. It's a giant clusterfuck of nonsense.

[Rapscallion]

Not sure how you're going to take this, but from what I can see you seem to be used to looking for meaning and fulfilment from external sources - religion in this instance. Some people find meaning there, others don't. I've been doing the aimless drifting for some time myself, driving one of my mates nuts.

He's convinced that everyone has a dream they wish to fulfil. He gets out and competes in racing days on national circuits, he tried his hands at flying lessons, and even managed to import a girlfriend (not a mail order bride).

I'm in my mid-forties, and now I'm far more independent instead of when I was working to support my parents, and I can't think of any real aspirations. Last year I started to visit castles as a hobby, and managed 22 if you count the Roman forts on Hadrian's wall. I've just got started with quadcopters as a hobby and intend to combine the two hobbies. I'm also running out of money

I still don't have any sort of main aim in life. I'm not so sure it's necessary or guaranteed. I'm enjoying what I do, and I really wish I had more time to do more, though I've run out of local castles so it's a bit more pricey on fuel and stopping out overnight etc. I still manage a few here or there. Is that a main aim in life? Not really. Do I enjoy it? Sure. It's not what I would call a dream or aspiration. There may not actually be any meaning to life as it is. I can't tell.

My suggestion - try things. Maybe watch some sports, or participate. Choose a side to support, local or national. Join an athletics club. Model car club, or maybe take up a side hobby to learn a new trade such as woodworking. Hiking, camping, meet new people, see what they like to do. You may only find a series of enjoyable diversions, but you'll never be happy unless you try.

Rapscallion

[SkullKing]

Don´t really have much to add, just wanted to say that I think Rapscallion´s advice is quite good and I believe you shoud try it.

[fireheart17]

Thirding Raps's advice.

If you're stuck on what to do, check your local adult school/community college. A number of them will have short courses on different things ie "Learn to play the Ukulele" "Making babies in two easy steps" or "Cooking for beginners" (except not the second one )

[Gilhelmi]

I suggest actually reading the Bible. The "Extreme Conservatives" I find tend to misquote and misinterpret the Bible about as much as the "Extreme Liberals" or "Extreme Atheists" do. They get overly legalistic and condemn people, when the "sword is not ours to bear".

I have found that much of what the "Extreme Conservative" side says is a sin. But they go about things like the Pharisees, legalistic and in some cases not Biblical. Jesus had many run ins with them and I believe he would not be happy about the legalism in some of the "Extreme Conservatives".

FLT and God Bless

[Jaden]

I suggest actually reading the Bible. The "Extreme Conservatives" I find tend to misquote and misinterpret the Bible about as much as the "Extreme Liberals" or "Extreme Atheists" do. They get overly legalistic and condemn people, when the "sword is not ours to bear".

I have found that much of what the "Extreme Conservative" side says is a sin. But they go about things like the Pharisees, legalistic and in some cases not Biblical. Jesus had many run ins with them and I believe he would not be happy about the legalism in some of the "Extreme Conservatives".

FLT and God Bless

I appreciate this post, and I respect you and the sentiment. I just want to get that out of the way before I say this:

I have read the Bible. Reading the Bible was one of the things which caused me to question my faith, and ultimately, doing that is what has sealed my former faith off to the point where I do not believe I could return to it and remain intellectually honest with myself.

[Panacea]

I appreciate this post, and I respect you and the sentiment. I just want to get that out of the way before I say this:

I have read the Bible. Reading the Bible was one of the things which caused me to question my faith, and ultimately, doing that is what has sealed my former faith off to the point where I do not believe I could return to it and remain intellectually honest with myself.

Hi, Jaden! I hope you see this; I don't pop into Fratching much these days so I missed this thread until today.

I'm sorry you've had to go through such a rough time, and that things have been so difficult for you. You seem to be reaching for something spiritually, are turned off by what you grew up with, sense a need for something and are not sure where to go next. Does that sound right?

My suggestion would be to talk to God, if you feel up to it. I don't mean prayer in a formal sense; I mean a good old fashioned, honest to goodness, conversation. Just speak your mind and get it all out.

Do this a few time. Give yourself some quiet time to reflect and clear your mind of negative emotions. I think you may start to hear an answer.

There are so many ways for people to express their faith and explore their spirituality. I would find someone to talk to who you can trust to deal with the depression (preferably a therapist if you have insurance, EAP where you work, or can otherwise afford one). When you're ready read up on and explore some other form of spirituality. There are many flavors of Christianity that you may find meet your spiritual needs. I would also encourage you to learn something about other faiths: Islam, Buddhism, etc. They may not appeal to you at all, but the simple walking of the path will help you appreciate people of other faiths better, and also to better understand what it is you are looking for in your personal spirituality.

Take your time. This should not be a quick journey. It really should take months if not years to find the best fit for you. It took me a couple of decades.

Where ever the journey ultimately takes you I wish you the very best.