A Christian Rewrite of Harry Potter

[s_stabeler]

I'd disagree with that. I think you can have an AU where the question is "What if these same people are in an utterly unrelated situation?" You could change the names, and no-one would notice, but that can be an interesting crucible to find the 'core' of the character. "If the crew of the Enterprise were Highschool students, what would it be like?" could be a way of finding out what it IS that makes Kirk Kirk.

it's a little bit more complicated than that. ( though I personally dislike the kind of fic) yes, you can put Harry Potter in a different environment, but the question that arises is if it really is the same character as in the books. Is it Harry Potter, the character from the Harry Potter book series in X or basically an X character that happens to be called Harry Potter. Especially in a situation where you pray instead of perform magic. ( Harrt is pretty independant, and praying for just about everything a) seems somewhat disrespectful to the god- because it becomes commanding the god to do something b) seems pretty dependant on said god- because if the god decided "I've had enough of this!" you'd be screwed)

[Gravekeeper]

I'd disagree with that. I think you can have an AU where the question is "What if these same people are in an utterly unrelated situation?" You could change the names, and no-one would notice, but that can be an interesting crucible to find the 'core' of the character. "If the crew of the Enterprise were Highschool students, what would it be like?" could be a way of finding out what it IS that makes Kirk Kirk.

But this is what I'm trying to get at. If you remove the things that make Kirk Kirk, is it still Kirk? Or just a guy named Kirk. If you remove the core of the character, its just a guy named Kirk. At which point you may as well call him Steve. You can't explore the core of a character if you've tossed that core out.

Is it Harry Potter, the character from the Harry Potter book series in X or basically an X character that happens to be called Harry Potter.

Exactly. Especially in the case of Harry Potter. If you just flat out remove magic you've gutted the core of Potter as a character ( nevermind the rest of the cast and world ). His entire life from birth to the end of the series is shaped by magic.

This is a trap me thinks a lot of fan fiction ( especially of the AU variety ) falls into. A character doesn't just appear fully formed. They have a history, motivations, etc. The more of that you remove or change, the less of that core remains. But the author still insists its the same character and even has them behave the same as they do in the original material.

[Hyena Dandy]

rk.
it's a little bit more complicated than that. ( though I personally dislike the kind of fic) yes, you can put Harry Potter in a different environment, but the question that arises is if it really is the same character as in the books. Is it Harry Potter, the character from the Harry Potter book series in X or basically an X character that happens to be called Harry Potter. Especially in a situation where you pray instead of perform magic. ( Harrt is pretty independant, and praying for just about everything a) seems somewhat disrespectful to the god- because it becomes commanding the god to do something b) seems pretty dependant on said god- because if the god decided "I've had enough of this!" you'd be screwed)

That, I think, will come down to how well it's written. But I'm happy to see any of them in any situation at all, provided it's done well, and is about exploration of character and ideas.

Suppose there was a world where wizards weren't as separate from human society, and thus, the human ideas end up influencing wizards. The medieval Christian wizards decide that

1) Since God alone can do supernatural things. Mortals can be acted through by God, and Satan can only make illusions

and

2) These are clearly supernatural things

then

3) These must be powers from God.

The wizards could be right, they could be wrong, but they would see their magic in a different light anyway. As I said, fanfiction should be about exploration, but in this case, it isn't. It's about 'censoring' the story, changing it at its core. It isn't respect for the story and interest in exploring it, but it's about changing it to be in line with your views. It's like if I wrote fanfic for Atlas Shrugged to make it about communism instead of anarcho-capitalism.

"What if John Galt was a communist" is an idea someone could explore. Figure out what makes John Galt so John Galt-y, apply that to an alternate political position. But if I were to do that as "What if Atlas Shrugged is about how awesome Communism is instead of Capitalism," then it would have no merit as fanfic.

Additional point is respect. If this person thinks Harry POotter is bad and dangerous, then they don't have the respect for the work necessary to write it. JUst like while maybe SOMEONE could do a commie John Galt fic, /I/ can't. Because I Have no respect for the writings of Rand.

[Hyena Dandy]

Exactly. Especially in the case of Harry Potter. If you just flat out remove magic you've gutted the core of Potter as a character ( nevermind the rest of the cast and world ). His entire life from birth to the end of the series is shaped by magic.

I disagree with that. The core of Harry Potter as a character, I think, is his generosity, his conviction, and his stubborn-ness. I think being adopted and raised by abusive parents is an important part of the character, but I don't think the magic is.

I think that the CORE of a character is something that will be the same in multiple universes. Of the characters I write - Belle, for instance, is a high-class, matronly murderess. She's infertile, so if she wants a child, she finds another way to get it (she'll want one unless circumstances prevent it.) Whatever environment she happens to be in, is not the one she was raised in. While she is sadistic, when not killing, she is kind, and feels a certain amount of remorse for what she's done, but she views her love of killing as only natural. If she could get the same satisfaction another way, she would.

That started as a grimdark pony page. Since then, she's appeared in a Star Trek fic, a Vampire RPG, a medieval AAR, and a superhero campaign.

In the Trek fic, she gets her blood craving via replicator, and her sadism is excised on the holodeck. In the Medieval AAR, she preys on the servants in the castle, Bathory-style, and the child was a peasant girl whose parents she killed to take In the vampire RP, she appears only in flashback, but she presumably sired a Viola in the past, and enjoyed torturing mortals in the time she was around. In the supers RP, the ability to create artificial life that can sufficiently pass for real has rendered her effectively harmless, and she seems pefectly well-adjusted, though overly quick to resort to killing.

I feel, as a writer, that a changed setting helps me learn who my characters ARE, exactly. And while magic is something that has happened to and around Harry, and guided him, I don't think its' what he IS.

[Gravekeeper]

I disagree with that. The core of Harry Potter as a character, I think, is his generosity, his conviction, and his stubborn-ness. I think being adopted and raised by abusive parents is an important part of the character, but I don't think the magic is.

But that is exactly what I'm talking about. Why is he an orphan? Magic. Why is he adopted and raised by abusive parents? Magic. What gets him out of that situation and lets him develop the personality you're referring too? Magic. What is the primary antagonistic force that shapes him? Also magic.

The core of a character doesn't just develop in a vacuum. Harry Potter is an especially tricky one because his entire life is shaped by magic from birth. He has a Hero's Destiny(tm). His "What If?" question begins at birth. Him dealing with the burden of his Hero's Destiny(tm) is a central part of the story and his development.

Thus if you just flat out remove magic, you have left a gaping crater in the character. In order to reach the same starting point in an AU for your "What If?" you have to start filling in that crater before you can even ask the question. Its a task that, to be frank, 95% of fan fiction writers are not up too. So they either forget it, ignore it, change it ( badly ) or they replicate the circumstances by just retreading the same territory with slight alterations.

I think that the CORE of a character is something that will be the same in multiple universes.

Which is essentially what I am arguing. If you can't keep that core the same, then its not the same character at heart anymore. In order to keep that core though, you must understand why that core is the way it is. You can't just flat out remove everything that created that core.

And while magic is something that has happened to and around Harry, and guided him, I don't think its' what he IS.

He's a Horcrux for Gandalf Hitler. It's the entire basis of the story. -.-

[Hyena Dandy]

The core of a character doesn't just develop in a vacuum. Harry Potter is an especially tricky one because his entire life is shaped by magic from birth. He has a Hero's Destiny(tm). His "What If?" question begins at birth. Him dealing with the burden of his Hero's Destiny(tm) is a central part of the story and his development.

The hero's destiny part, yes. But the 'magic' for the other answers aren't what's core to the character.

Which is essentially what I am arguing. If you can't keep that core the same, then its not the same character at heart anymore. In order to keep that core though, you must understand why that core is the way it is. You can't just flat out remove everything that created that core.

And what created that core, I think, is violence, jealousy, and responsibility. Not "Magic." Without magic, he would need some other form of responsibility to talk about, some other way to be orphaned, but you can do that.

He's a Horcrux for Gandalf Hitler. It's the entire basis of the story. -.-

It's the basis of the plot, but I don't think plot = story. Plot is a big part of the story, but not all of it. It's how you can have Romeo & Juliet in 1950s New York, or Hamlet with Lions. Yes, most fanfic writers, as you say, aren't up for the task. But that doesn't make the idea bad, just trick. What makes an idea BAD is where it comes from.

[Gravekeeper]

And what created that core, I think, is violence, jealousy, and responsibility. Not "Magic." Without magic, he would need some other form of responsibility to talk about, some other way to be orphaned, but you can do that.

I get the sense we're kind of arguing the same thing from different viewpoints. Or it could be that I am off one of my meds cus one ran out yesterday and I can't get to the doctor tomorrow.

Either or

This is kind f what I mean though. If you take out magic, you've taken out a huge part of the characters and story. One you're going to need to competently be able to fill back in with a functioning alternative. Otherwise you're going to, ironically, end up with an original work that just shares some character names.

50 Shades of Grey ( <shudder> ) is a good example.

Its just particularly tricky with Harry Potter because he has a Hero's Destiny that hinges on magic and its a plot point pretty much from his birth. You can change the setting or the time period as an alternate without kicking out the foundation. But magic is the foundation, if you just straight up remove it ( such as the fic in op ) things are going to fall apart without some really deft writing. But even with deft writing you're going to run the risk of losing that core or having the core no longer make sense.

If we go back to Kirk for a moment as a contrast; Kirk can be Kirk up until the point of the What If?. Because Kirk up until the point he joined Starfleet did not hinge on him being a starship captain. The core of Kirk is intact prior to the introduction of the alternative. So the basis of the alternative universe still works from the standpoint of What If Kirk was a captain during the Age of Sail or What If Kirk ran a KFC. Because you've got Kirk Kirk at that point.

With Potter, magic is right there at the beginning of his life and sets everything in motion from there on. If you just remove it, you have a serious gap. If you replace it with an analog that does not have the same kind of weight ( Bible School for example -.- ) it will alter who Potter is up until the point you think your What If begins.

You could for example replace magic with technology or psionics or mutant powers or something. As these things can carry the weight required to keep Potter's core character intact up until the point of your What If? If you just remove magic because you don't like it and send him to a Christian boarding school, things are going to fall apart. Harry isn't Harry anymore.

[Hyena Dandy]

You could for example replace magic with technology or psionics or mutant powers or something. As these things can carry the weight required to keep Potter's core character intact up until the point of your What If? If you just remove magic because you don't like it and send him to a Christian boarding school, things are going to fall apart. Harry isn't Harry anymore.

And I think the core of that problem isn't that you took out magic. I'm against calling anything a bad IDEA. I think the problem is you took out magic because you don't like magic. You're not exploring. You're censoring.

Honestly, the main problem I'd expect with this isn't that you took out magic, it's that you didn't change ENOUGH. You just called magic 'prayer.' You censored it to be acceptable, and that's what's a bad idea. If you call magic prayer, and give Christians magic prayer powers, then Harry Potter will play out pretty much the same.

But as I said, it's about censorship, and pushing a viewpoint, and that's where I think it falls apart. Like Methods of Rationality - If I took the "What if Aunt Petunia's husband was a New Atheist-style Ultra-Rationalist Scientist, leading Harry to take that type of viewpoint" I could write a good story. But the problem is that it's not Harry taking that viewpoint, but the story, and the author. It's propaganda.

And honestly, at least that would change SOME things, more than just reskinning Magic to God.

[HYHYBT]

Magic isn't the core of Harry's character, but only the mechanism used. The plot would be different, but the characters (all of them, really, setting aside monsters and probably Voldemort) could readily be formed by non-magical parallels.

[HYHYBT]

In case anyone cares, this turned up on Snopes today.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/harrypotter.asp

[Kheldarson]

In case anyone cares, this turned up on Snopes today.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/harrypotter.asp

Gah! I was hoping they'd have the answer as to whether it's trolling or not

[Ginger Tea]

Contrary to some rumors, there are no plans to create a published set of Harry Potter books without the troublesome witchcraft and wizardry.

Barry Trotter could be sold as it was genuine parody, this however is outright plagiarism so no sensible publisher would touch it with a ten foot barge pole, given away as fan fiction I have no qualms with, charging a fee no matter how nominal (and not taking into account the 'you couldn't pay me to read it' aspects) just opens you up to a shit storm.

Graham Norton was once in China for a few weeks filming and found a telephone book sized manga of Harry Potter, volume #5 I think it was at the time of filming, there were only 4 books published (or what ever the manga knock off was at it was one volume higher) it bore zero resemblance to the final actual book and was just a speedily made 'adaptation' that was nothing but published fan fic, this got to publication as, well China.

You could dismiss it as Harry Potter and "what I did over the Summer holiday" a non cannon, I would call it 'filler' if it wasn't for the sheer size of it. The only people duped in the end were the Chinese who got the manga then saw the movies and WTF'd all over the place.

[Eisa]

I first saw the fanfic in the OP on Tumblr, and I had such high hopes that it was made up completely, but no.

I have read some interesting AU fanfic where religion in some form played a big part (although magic was still a thing). And I love writing AU stories.

That actually reminds me of a fantastic Supernatural fanfic where all the supernatural-y monsters/angels/demons were taken out, yet all the original characters were left in, Dean worked for the FBI, etc., Castiel was an accountant, I think? Can't remember. And yet everyone was recognizable from the SPN canon, and it was great.

Have I mentioned I love well-written AU's (although the key there is well-written.)

[Hyena Dandy]

Looked over the fanfic a bit, starting to think this is a case of Poe. Something about it just seems... Off, I guess? I'm fluent enough in evangelicalese to spot a faker when I see one, and this just doesn't seem right.

[XCashier]

A mom, who calls herself proudhousewife, has taken upon herself to rewrite Harry Potter so her kids don't turn into witches by reading it! (I wish I were joking, but that's seriously in the author note of the first chapter).

I've read the series myself and am a huge fan, and I'm still a Christian. My son's read the books, even dressed as Harry last Halloween, and he's still a Christian. He knows the books are fantasy, that there's no such thing as Hogwarts, and he can't wave a stick and alter the laws of reality.

Kids are smarter than most adults give them credit for. They know the difference between story and fact, particularly when the book spine states "fiction"! Simply reading about a wizarding world isn't going to turn anyone into a witch or wizard, just like reading Dracula won't turn anyone into a vampire.

Writing AU fanfiction is one thing; fubaring characterization and background is quite another. This woman is a hack looking for attention.