Announcement

**Greenday** · 03-26-2009, 08:41 PM

Forcing an abortion is wrong. Shouldn't force something like that on someone.

Now, if the daughter was correct and the baby was born alive, then it was 1st degree murder.

I don't see what exactly is wrong with upping the bail if it's possible 1st degree murder.

**TheRoo** · 03-27-2009, 12:18 AM

If it was murder, she should be charged with murder, not given a higher bail on the lesser charge.

**Slytovhand** · 03-27-2009, 12:59 PM

The one problem (I suspect) is that she can't be done for the same crime twice - under a different charge. So, if they don't get her on terminating an abortion, they might not be able to do anything about a murder... (of course, I know nothing about the law over there...).

Isn't bail supposed to also be base on how likely a defendant is to abscond? (as well as heinousness of the actual crime)

**RecoveringKinkoid** · 03-27-2009, 02:16 PM

Only think I can think is that they are working up a case so they can try to charge her with murder, but they can't at the moment. They are probably going on the idea that she is a flight risk and since they are planning on upping the charges, they don't want to take the chance of her splitting.

That was probably just a hearing, not a trial. At least, that's my guess.

**AdminAssistant** · 03-27-2009, 02:18 PM

It's too bad they can't prove whether or not the baby was born alive. Either way, the woman needs to go to jail for a long long long time. Her poor daughter must be going through hell.

**Slytovhand** · 03-27-2009, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by AdminAssistant View Post

It's too bad they can't prove whether or not the baby was born alive. Either way, the woman needs to go to jail for a long long long time. Her poor daughter must be going through hell.

Don't worry about that... forensics would easily be able to tell that. If the baby was alive when dumped, then there'd be recovery from bruising from after the 'birth'. As well as air in the lungs. And, no doubt, other indicators.

**Pedersen** · 03-27-2009, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by Slytovhand View Post

The one problem (I suspect) is that she can't be done for the same crime twice - under a different charge. So, if they don't get her on terminating an abortion, they might not be able to do anything about a murder... (of course, I know nothing about the law over there...).

Actually, Slyt, they wouldn't be able to try her for the same crime twice is true. However, "terminating an abortion" and "murder" are two different crimes. They could try her again.

Yeah, it's double jeopardy by the common person's meaning. But the legal meaning? Well, they are in a world of their own. The best you can hope for is not to enter it.

**BlaqueKatt** · 03-28-2009, 05:20 AM

Originally posted by Pedersen View Post

However, "terminating an abortion" and "murder" are two different crimes.

and that would be terminating a pregnancy-not terminating an abortion-sorry terminate means to end as does "to abort"-you can't end an end-sorry pet peeve-I'll show myself out of the thread before I get upset.......

**Jester** · 04-19-2009, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by RecoveringKinkoid View Post

That was probably just a hearing, not a trial. At least, that's my guess.

Good guess. By definition, this was a hearing, as they don't set a bond after a trial, they impose a sentence.

When you are charged with a crime and arrested, you are either released on your own recognizance (your promise to appear before the court on the appointed day) or a bond amount is set, without which you remain in jail until the arraignment or trial (depending on the case).

While the judge could have upped the bond if the charge had been upgraded to murder or manslaughter, the charge was not changed, therefore by the set guidelines, the judge had no legal authority to increase the amount of the bond.

Keep in mind, all of the above is merely commentary on the judge's actions in regards to the bond. It does not reflect my opinion of the woman charged with said crimes. If she is guilty of them, I think she deserves the harshest punishment that can be legally imposed. And a rusty chainsaw up the ass. But that's just me.

**Slytovhand** · 04-20-2009, 02:17 PM

You've confused me Mr J.

I'm thinking...you can be released on your own recognizance (with or without a bail amount set... or bond which becomes forfeit if you disappear), or an amount is set for either of those and if you can't pay that, you stay in jail, or your just sent there with no bail/bond.

Maybe it was just the way I read you...

**Jester** · 04-20-2009, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Slytovhand View Post

You've confused me Mr J.

That was not my intent. I thought I was clear.

Originally posted by Slytovhand View Post

I'm thinking...you can be released on your own recognizance (with or without a bail amount set... or bond which becomes forfeit if you disappear), or an amount is set for either of those and if you can't pay that, you stay in jail, or your just sent there with no bail/bond.

Let me try to make it clear for you. (Amusing that, with the massive hangover I have now, I am going to attempt to clarify that which I wrote when I was stone cold sober, don't you think?)

Let's say I am being a drunken idiot in downtown Key West (not that far from the truth) and I punch a bouncer in the face (very far from any truth I've known--I'm not that stupid). The police arrest me and charge me with assault. I go to jail. A few hours later, I go before the judge. He then advises me of the charge against me, makes sure I understand it, and assigns a date for my court case. At which point, depending on the charge, my criminal history, my potential flight risk, and his judicial discretion, he has a choice to make. He can have me released from jail on my own recognizance, or he can set a bond for my release. Let's say for the sake of argument he thinks I am a horrible criminal and a huge flight risk, and he sets the bond at $50,000. That means I go back to jail until either a. my court date, or b. I post bond, either through friends or a bail bondsman (the process of which is a whole 'nother story). Basically, the court system is saying that I can only get out of jail if I put up something of value so they can believe I will actually be there at my court date, or at the very least, forfeit something of value if I fail to do so.

Make sense?

**Slytovhand** · 04-20-2009, 05:41 PM

Ah, well, 'confusion' may not be the best of words.. (and yes, quite amusing

)

If Jester the drunken idiot punches a bouncer in the face, the judge also has the option of either imposing a) no bond (because you're normally a good, upstanding member of the community (and the judge realises that s/he may not get is drinks as quickly next time s/he is in your bar, or b) says that no amount of money is enough to see you walking the streets again til your trial, and so you go back in the slammer again til then.

**Jester** · 04-20-2009, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by Slytovhand View Post

If Jester the drunken idiot punches a bouncer in the face, the judge also has the option of either imposing a) no bond (because you're normally a good, upstanding member of the community (and the judge realises that s/he may not get is drinks as quickly next time s/he is in your bar, or b) says that no amount of money is enough to see you walking the streets again til your trial, and so you go back in the slammer again til then.

Not necessarily. With a lot of offenses, there are judicial guidelines that the judge is limited to. WITHIN those guidelines he may have some discretion, but if, for example, the offense calls for a bond between $5,000 and $100,000, the judge would not be able to release me on my own recognizance or set a bond at $1,000,000. Even if he knows me to be a normally good citizen or he thinks I am the scourge of humanity, he still has to follow the guidelines that are in place.

The judge in the OP did not do that, and so overstepped his authority.

Announcement

A Judge Overstepping The Boundaries

A Judge Overstepping The Boundaries

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment