"Anti"-Earth hour

[Giggle Goose]

Now take another example...low flow toilets. Use 2-3 times as much water since one flush won't get rid of a generous crap, and furthermore it's far more likely to get plugged up. Doesn't seem like much savings at all to me there! Yet there are folks who think they're jim dandy and everyone should use them, by force of law. Use them themselves, sure...it's your water bill! Force them on *everyone*? Howzabout a big ol "no thanks" with a side order of "FU".

Ugh, tell me about it! It makes no sense and it's a pain in the butt to have to unclog them all the time!

I miss my old house that was built in the 30's. You could probably flush a pot roast down that toilet.

Back on topic, I agree that it's silly and pointless to protest in that way. Both environs AND wingnuts can be pretty annoying IMHO.

[guywithashovel]

It's things like this Anti-Earth Hour that make me ashamed that I ever identified with the Republican Party. I know this is probably difficult for them to understand, but Earth Hour was about awareness. Did it make that big of a difference in the long run? Probably not. Is anyone a "bad person" for not participating in it? Of course not. The point is, it was a gesture to raise awareness about taking care of our planet. And that is important. After all, this is the only planet we have that we can live on. It's important to remind people of ways to be less harmful to the environment.

I could go on, but I won't. Because I know this is too lofty of a concept for these people to understand.

[blas87]

I wish I would have known about that.

I would have went outside with the big ol bottle of AquaNet and spritzed my hair until it was a solid blonde brick.

[Greenday]

I wish I would have known about that.

I would have went outside with the big ol bottle of AquaNet and spritzed my hair until it was a solid blonde brick.

So you...hate the environment?

[MystyGlyttyr]

As a creature of the scientific method, I have yet to see anything that effectively proves that global warming (or global cooling, or climate change, or whatever the buzzword is this week) is because of humans. There's no control in the experiment, save for the earlier history of earth before humans existed (during which time it's been shown that temperatures varied up and down all by themselves). So honestly, no one even CAN say for sure because there's nothing else to compare it to. If we had, say, an identical planet empty of humans, well, hell yeah, we could test our hypothesis then.

As it is, most people are looking at an effect and guessing the cause. It would be like leaving an ice cube on the table, and later finding a puddle of water on the table, and assuming the puddle should still be an ice cube, but your lamp was too hot. So you toss the lamp because obviously THAT must be the only problem. Except the ice cubes are gonna keep melting on your table because you didn't test all the different ways an ice cube could have melted and so by being so focused on the lamp, you miss the heater under the table or the fact that the room is just too warm for an ice cube.

It's really more the sheer bastardization of the scientific method in all this that drives me up the wall. And less that and more people who insist on bastardizing it for their own purposes. How much encroaching on people has been done in the name of "the environment" anyway? It's like, more wars have been fought in the name of God than any other, and these days the newest God is The Environment and how dare you not worship it you heretic! Etc.

Look, I respect the earth and the combination of elements that keeps me and mine alive, and I won't go so far as to say flat out climate change isn't happening, even though I don't really think it is. But from everything I can see, Green is nothing but the newest fad/government sponsored religion and I just don't have any faith for it.

[blas87]

I just do most of the things I do to be a smartass, Greenday.

I'm convinced it's not global warming, it's global freezing.

[protege]

I hear ya, Mysty. That's one problem I have with the "global warming" crowd. They're quick to start trumpeting their cause as soon as summer hits. Then they all disappear back into the woodwork the first cold weather we get. Mainly because they'd get laughed at during the middle of winter...when it's snowing here in Pennsylvania

Seriously though, I have a feeling that if you took away all the cash being thrown at that theory...it would quickly go away. People only support things like that...as long as there's money to be made. Also, it doesn't help that you can literally skew the "facts" either way.

[tabbyblack13]

MystyGlyttyr - Welcome to the world of spin. I've had to deal with a lot of things similar to this in college and at work. I don't listen to anything political if I can help it due to the amount of spin I hear.

I do know that oil will not be around forever that that going green will most likely be the only way to have electricity. I don't want to force that on people like many others do. I am aware of the affect that people have on the environment and that the environment has an affect on us.

Being republican doesn't mean that you are against anything that would conserve the environment. Its just the more vocal ones represent the whole group.

As for recycling there isn't a center here to do that. I wish I could recycle. I would like to at least have less garbage to take out.

[AdminAssistant]

That's why Al Gore, among others, has attempted to change the phrase to "climate change", since it causes temperatures to fluctuate in both directions.

[Slytovhand]

I'm gonna make myself really unpopular right about now..(as against all the rest of the time). But then, the truth often does that to people.

Human beings are the most destructive creatures this planet currently has.. and possibly has ever had. We've done it through pure ignorance ("oops, didn't know that was going to happen"), stupidity, and ego-centric selfishness. While the first two may be forgiveable, the last isn't. (what's the number of species that has become extinct in the last 1000 years, compared to the last few million years before that? There's some statistic around regarding this...or something like it)

Now, by 'human beings', I'm not referring to some mythical creature here... I'm referring to you and I.. all of us on this forum (oh, yeah, and the rest of the currently +6Billion). Each and every single member of that species has helped to destroy a little bit of the earth. Sure, some have done it merely for survival (such as aboriginal peoples, such as those currently living in the Amazon rainforest), but the vast majority has helped merely by being 'consumerist'.

So, when I read "We shouldn't be forced to buy those bulbs by the gubmint", I read "I shouldn't be forced to actually take responsibility for my part in the destruction of this planet, and the various life forms currently on it".

Personally, I find it reprehensible to see how much effort, emotion and even angst goes into such things as ANZAC Day (for those who acknowledge it), Armistice Day, Veteran's Day etc... yet won't even lift a finger to turn off a frickin' lightbulb for a mere hour to acknowledge the damage we're doing (present tense!) to the place we live, and potentially, to our future generations - because it's 'inconvenient'.

The rate things are going, in 20 years, we'll have a human population of over 12 billion, and in 50 years, over 20 billion. The planet can't cope with this the way things are. Our actions now may help (though, I suspect things will get so bad so soon, that we won't be 6 billion for much longer anyway...).

"Climate Change". I'm convinced we're having an effect. Sure, it won't be anywhere near as bad as those asteroids that wiped out the dinosaurs (and pretty much every other living thing), nor as bad as all that volcanic activity that'd been going on for millions of years... nor as bad as those ice-ages we have (of which we're just in a more temperate period of)... but we're still having an effect... and I think those idiots who want to burn tires are just that... idiots!

/rant (well, for now anyway )

[protege]

That's why Al Gore, among others, has attempted to change the phrase to "climate change", since it causes temperatures to fluctuate in both directions.

Al Gore is a hypocrite. According to this article on Snopes, his home uses *20 times* the amount of energy that the average American home does. Seems he wants everyone else to limit their own energy usage...but has no problem leaving his lights on at all times So much for being a champion of the environment...

Also, being of either political party does not mean whether or not you support the environment. The only reason Republicans get blasted for it, is because of a very small, yet annoyingly loud minority...makes us all look bad. Lately, I do find it interesting that here in 'burban Pittsburgh, we're getting door-to-door petitioners trying to increase funding for environmental causes. Oddly, because they claim that the Democrats have a "horrible environmental record" (their words, not mine). Never mind that those Democrat lawmakers were voted in...during the "Republicans are teh evil!" purge of our state government a few years ago

As to the people bitching about the swirly lightbulbs...I just have to ask. Are you fucking kidding me? Sure, they're a bit more expensive, but they do use a fraction of the energy of a regular bulb, but throw off the same amount of light. In other words, they pay for themselves in short order. How do I know this? Well, when I moved in 2 years ago...that was one of the first things I did. They're in all the light fixtures. 2 years on, not only have my energy bills drop...but not one bulb has burned out!

While we're talking recycling...it simply doesn't exist in all areas. Take rural Greene County. Sure, there is a program in the works, but there aren't many towns down there. By "town," I mean something more than a few houses and a school bus up on blocks (Bristoria), or a wide spot in the road (Spraggs). It's just not practical down there.

[LewisLegion]

I wouldn't call myself a big environmentalist but at the same time I try not to actively make a human pig out of myself. I didn't participate because I didn't hear about it until the following day. Even then, I can't say if I would have particiapted or not. Meh.

That said, I am in the process of buying a new house. First time home buyers who close on a house before Dec. 31st of this year are getting a 8000 stimulus refund on their next year's tax return. My friends and I (who are buying the house with me) have already decided that we're going to use that money to make our new house solar or get a wind turbine and have that generate our power.

Partly to help reduce our environmental impact, partly to save money and not have to worry about power outages.

[AFPheonix]

Al Gore is a hypocrite. According to this article on Snopes, his home uses *20 times* the amount of energy that the average American home does. Seems he wants everyone else to limit their own energy usage...but has no problem leaving his lights on at all times So much for being a champion of the environment...

He also has a honkin' huge house compared to his neighbors, plus his house also doubles as a business center not just for himself but also for his wife. I also wonder if his security staff stays there, too.
There are some mitigating circumstances that are in your article and it also talks about how they're attempting to offset their energy use, plus bring down the amount of power they use.
While obviously not ideal and he opened himself up to that one, it's not intellectually honest to just sit back smugly and call him a hypocrite without bothering to figure out what all's going into it.

[tabbyblack13]

The thing is with Al Gores house is that local codes do not allow him to put up solar panels or a wind generator. It has something do with the look of the area.

Slytovhand I agree with you stating the damage that people do. There are a lot people who will not agree that we are damage the planet. The thing is how do you change there mind?

[Slytovhand]

The thing is how do you change there mind?

Ummm.. TARDIS??

Ok, more seriously, show them the various photos and stats of how much the Amazon has been hacked into on a daily basis. Or the Aral Sea disaster...

Thanks AFP, I was going to bring that up. Significantly larger house than the 'average' American, 'houses' staff, used as an offic/place of business, and probably has large dinner parties/gatherings regularly to drum up support. Of course he's going to have significantly larger power requirements. But.. it also says that he gets a stack from alternative power supplies, and wants to put in his own...