Elite K-8 school teaches white students they’re born racist

[mjr]

As for the born racist thing, that's not the best way of putting it but it is actually true.

But the article doesn't say that about all babies (or children) -- just the white ones. Because apparently whites are the only ones who can be racists.

[Gravekeeper]

Anonymous isn't only valid when our side does it. So my guess is, those "scary quotations" were probably said but not in the context the article supposes. That's my experience with the Post. They're not going to lie but they're going to fudge the point in a way they don't have to print retractions.

Observing that the author is a rightwing click baiter doesn't mean I am taking "our side". Its pretty clear the article is designed to drudge up a specific base on the right side of the political spectrum. One that is currently roaring around after a specific presidential nominee.

That said, it's absolutely indoctrination in a specific way of thinking about race unless you have kids that are ignoring their teacher. The reaction of people sending their kids to that school are valid. They have a say in what messages their kids receive.

It is not absolutely indoctrination and yes, parents do have a say in what messages they receive but this is a private school. A private school which advertises itself up front as teaching "progressive" education with a focus on social justice, diversity and multiculturalism. This program is also fully advertised and outlined as part of their curriculum.

If you do not want your child learning about said subjects at a progressive left wing school why are you sending them too it? The school is doing exactly what it says on the side of the box.

So yeah, I find it a little hard to believe all these anonymous parents suddenly have a problem with what they literally paid to sign their child up for. And that they provide such thoughtfully specific quotes criticizing it.

A better title for the article would be "Angry dude discovers webpage exists".

Aneshu, is for all intents and purposes winging it. I'm not an experiment averse person though. So I dunno. People were fine "well intentioning" my generation too.

They are not winging it. The school is a century old and both a private school for children and a college for educators. Give them some credit. They didn't just pluck some random hippy off the street and have her direct the curriculum.

But the article doesn't say that about all babies (or children) -- just the white ones. Because apparently whites are the only ones who can be racists.

I was not referencing the article and you are not helping the discussion.

[mjr]

A private school which advertises itself up front as teaching "progressive" education with a focus on social justice, diversity and multiculturalism. This program is also fully advertised and outlined as part of their curriculum.

If you do not want your child learning about said subjects at a progressive left wing school why are you sending them too it? The school is doing exactly what it says on the side of the box.

And if you'll note, the article says that LIBERAL PARENTS don't like their white children being told they're born racist, either. That's the article, not me.

So yeah, I find it a little hard to believe all these anonymous parents suddenly have a problem with what they literally paid to sign their child up for. And that they provide such thoughtfully specific quotes criticizing it.

and you are not helping the discussion.

I absolutely am. But I guess you don't understand how. I'm pointing out a fallacy and a hypocrisy.

If it is true that all children are born racist (someone earlier in this thread actually said that), then why is the focus only on white children at this school?

By definition, children cannot be born racist.

Racism:

noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

[Gravekeeper]

And if you'll note, the article says that LIBERAL PARENTS don't like their white children being told they're born racist, either. That's the article, not me.

Yes, the biased article designed for maximum clickbait using nothing but unsubstantiated anonymous sources. Why would you try and use the article as your counterpoint to my argument that the article is biased?

I absolutely am. But I guess you don't understand how. I'm pointing out a fallacy and a hypocrisy.

No, you're being argumentative for the sake of your own confirmation bias and/or agenda. While persisting in heralding this problematic article as the bastion of truth on the subject. Now you're stooping to the point of arguing semantics.

Its tiresome and I'm not going to play your game with you. Play with yourself.

[mjr]

Snip...

I'm just gonna go ahead and roll my eyes in amusement at that...

By the way, nobody's making you respond to my posts.

But I'll leave you with classic words from Orwell's Animal Farm:

"All animals are equal. Some are just more equal than others." Right?

You can go ahead and be Parsons if you want. I'm going to choose to be Winston.

[s_stabeler]

can we please not have this thread locked, when it is actually a fairly important discussion to be had.

I think we can agree, though, that:

1. if structural racism is a thing- and I do think it is, to an extent, just not necessarily intentionally so.(I think it is less racism as such, and more tribalism- people are still considered either white or back people, rather than just people. As the barriers break down- partially due to people from the era of segregation dying off- it should disappear)
2. it is probably unhelpful to teach white kids that they should feel personally responsible for the racist actions of other people. ( two reasons. 1. there's not necessarily a lot you can do to prevent it 2. it fosters an attitude of needing to make up for it- which would tend to be unfair on the white people (by that, I mean that it makes it seem like equality is not enough. which is a dangerous message)
3. it doesn't address the actual issue. Even if kids are inherently racist- which i don't believe- the solution is not to separate them along racial lines.

[NecCat]

s_stabler:

I agree, I think that cultural racism is often the result of tribalism, rather than a racist motivation. That doesn't make it less damaging, nor does it make it likely to die out as people who lived in more racially divisive times age out of power. If the racism was intentional that would be the case, but tribalism is so instinctual that actual intentional opposing education will have to be used to try to eliminate or even reduce it.

I agree that it is unhelpful to teach white children that they are personally responsible for racism. I also strongly suspect, but can't prove, that is not the intent (or even the result) of the program outlined in the article. Reading the slide, FAQ included in the article the intent of the program seems to be a more benign introduction to the reality of having different skin colours. Ignoring racial differences doesn't make them go away, and doesn't make people stop thinking about them. Hopefully this will be a safe space to have those thoughts addressed productively.

Separating the students seem key to the program, and a very good move. It states in the FAQ that both groups start and end together, and get the same curriculum, it just gives the kids in the minority a chance to discuss their experience for a moment when they're not a minority in the room.

I don't know that this program exactly is the way to go, just that programs like this seem absolutely needed. I really would like to see what a majority group of the taught students think of the program (in the QA sent home it explicitly says that the coloured students who experienced it felt positive about it, but doesn't mention the white students. Without their acceptance this is not a program to promote societal change and equality, it's just a minority support group).

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

2. it is probably unhelpful to teach white kids that they should feel personally responsible for the racist actions of other people. ( two reasons. 1. there's not necessarily a lot you can do to prevent it 2. it fosters an attitude of needing to make up for it- which would tend to be unfair on the white people (by that, I mean that it makes it seem like equality is not enough. which is a dangerous message)

As NecCat said, I'm pretty sure it's not the intent. I actually included a personal anecdote though, because my larger concern is how do children process it. I used psychology because I have personal experince in those results (it took me years to control my impulses - I was sharp as a tack though). Segregating those kids (even for limited time) in my experience absolutely enhanced any "othering" that children naturally do. And during that phase, my social circle was drastically reduced. Both because my time was being taken a way from the social butterfly person I had been, into a school-enforced select group both because of time spent there but also because of association. And I'm talking the same age-range. By high school I was out of those programs. The damage was done though. I went from an outgoing, got along with just about everybody person to a highly introverted fly on the wall. When I came out, I already felt like a paraiah and a combination of well-intentioned intervention and the unpredictability/lack-of-nuance of child behavior had contributed.

It's an imperfect analogy, but it is why I'm skeptical that enforcing differences at ages where children are highly prone to grouping anyway you would want to enforce racial identification. That's not to say kids won't anyway or that no resource should be available. I'm saying I'm skeptical being a product of segregation programs like this myself. And I ultimately question the value of flat out telling children "you are more like the children in this room, than the other." I know they don't mean it this way, but this is how I suspect kids tend to assimilate these kinds of messages.

That said, most of what happened to me was actually discredited BY statistics and outcomes finally coming back from my generation. If there's no data on this I'm not sure why they wouldn't. It's just why I specifically am probably more skeptical than most. I suspect learning about tribalism as the potentially caustic force it can be and providing resources for those who request it would be more beneficial. No one's giving me their kids though.