Dallas Protest Firefight

[Gravekeeper]

All Hell broke loose in Dallas.

11 officers down. At least 2 snipers. Multiple shooters with assault weapons. Just complete chaos.

I don't even know anymore.

[mathnerd]

I'm so, I don't know, I don't have words to describe what I'm feeling. I'm truly horrified about the police brutality towards black people in this country, and I do understand that they're angry. They have more reason to be angry than most groups of people, but this is not a solution to the problem.

[Gravekeeper]

I'm so, I don't know, I don't have words to describe what I'm feeling. I'm truly horrified about the police brutality towards black people in this country, and I do understand that they're angry. They have more reason to be angry than most groups of people, but this is not a solution to the problem.

I don't know whats going on here as of yet. But its not spontaneous anger. The attackers have tactical gear and body armour it sounds like. They took up sniper positions. This was planned well in advance.

[Greenday]

I'm not sure what these people are trying to accomplish. Shooting innocent cops wonthe get anyone to switch to their side.

What a bunch of scumbags.

[SkullKing]

I'm not sure what these people are trying to accomplish. Shooting innocent cops wonthe get anyone to switch to their side.

What a bunch of scumbags.

Seems pretty simple to understand to me:

Cops abuse their power because have no fear of reprisals.

Violent reprisal against cops might make them afraid to abuse their power.

Ergo the right thing to do is to visit violence on police.

Not saying it is right or smart, but I have been wondering for a few days why this hadn´t happened yet.

Frankly, I am not even that sure they are wrong(strategically, not morally). A healthy dose of fear might make policemen more careful on how they use their power.

Might also make them more angry towards the comunity, who knows?


I also believe they are not trying to have anyone switch to their side, they want the people who already are on their side to see that the police CAN be fought policeman CAN be punished.

[Kheldarson]

Not saying it is right or smart, but I have been wondering for a few days why this hadn´t happened yet.

I'm not surprised by this either.

What is disappointing me is the narrative I'm starting to see show up on my FB feed: that somehow Dallas excuses or explains Minnesota. I'm just like, no! That's not how cause and effect works!

[Canarr]

Seems pretty simple to understand to me:

Cops abuse their power because have no fear of reprisals.

Violent reprisal against cops might make them afraid to abuse their power.

Ergo the right thing to do is to visit violence on police.

Not saying it is right or smart, but I have been wondering for a few days why this hadn´t happened yet.

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm more inclined to agree with Greenday: killing a bunch of innocent cops from an entirely different state is a scumbag move.

Sure, maybe the shooters in Dallas had their own unpleasant experience with police. Maybe the dead cops (four, I think?) were racist bastards themselves, though the indiscriminate nature of the attack makes that seem unlikely.

But it's still murder, and no better than any of the cops involved in the shootings in Minnesota or Louisiana. If anything, it's worse.

[SkullKing]

but I'm more inclined to agree with Greenday: killing a bunch of innocent cops from an entirely different state is a scumbag move.

I never disagreed with they being scumbags.

I disagreed with his sentiment that they are hard to understand.

Understand ≠ Agree

[Ghel]

I almost hate to say it, but this is 6 cops dead, 12 or so injured. But more than 100 unarmed black people have been killed by cops so far this year (link). Maybe the snipers were trying to even the score. I don't know if I can fault them for that, if it shines a spotlight on the racist violence that cops perpetrate against people of color.

[Gravekeeper]

I understand the Dallas police must have been in a panic but they practically put a hit out on that one poor guy. The brother of the protest organizer. They tweeted out his picture calling on people to help them find this "suspect". When the first thing the guy did when it started was go to the police and turn over his ( unloaded ) weapon as to not be mistakenly shot.

Then when he turned himself in after seeing the tweet they interrogated him claiming they knew it was him and they had video of him shooting at officers.

They still haven't taken down the tweet even though he's been cleared and released. So his pic is still going around the news as a suspect.

Naturally, him and his family are getting death threats and what not now.

[SkullKing]

Yeah that could have gone very badly.

Imagine the PR clusterfuck it would have been if he had been killed and THEN gone out that he had done nothing wrong and had given his gun to police?

things would have became considerably worse.

[mjr]

I understand the Dallas police must have been in a panic but they practically put a hit out on that one poor guy. The brother of the protest organizer. They tweeted out his picture calling on people to help them find this "suspect". When the first thing the guy did when it started was go to the police and turn over his ( unloaded ) weapon as to not be mistakenly shot.

Then when he turned himself in after seeing the tweet they interrogated him claiming they knew it was him and they had video of him shooting at officers.

They still haven't taken down the tweet even though he's been cleared and released. So his pic is still going around the news as a suspect.

Naturally, him and his family are getting death threats and what not now.

By all accounts I've read, this was 800 people or so peacefully protesting. Some even took photos with Dallas police.

And while media reports are saying a "sniper", I don't think it's a "sniper" in the military sense of the word. It's a "sniper" in the sense of someone hiding with a rifle and shooting people from a distance.

One of the suspects killed himself. As Gravekeeper notes, one was also released, and is no longer a suspect. Though my understanding is he turned himself in, and was later released.

The "West End" area of Dallas is basically shut down today.

[Canarr]

I never disagreed with they being scumbags.

I disagreed with his sentiment that they are hard to understand.

Understand ≠ Agree

Ah. My mistake, sorry.

I almost hate to say it, but this is 6 cops dead, 12 or so injured. But more than 100 unarmed black people have been killed by cops so far this year (link). Maybe the snipers were trying to even the score. I don't know if I can fault them for that, if it shines a spotlight on the racist violence that cops perpetrate against people of color.

If it does, then it's gonna be the wrong kind of spotlight. As Kheldarson mentioned, people are already using the Dallas attack as a justification for Minnesaota. All this does is give racist assholes more ammunition, and detract from the tragedies that happened in Minnesota and Louisiana. Not to mention the four additional senseless deaths.

This attack was just as stupid as it was wrong.

[Gravekeeper]

And while media reports are saying a "sniper", I don't think it's a "sniper" in the military sense of the word. It's a "sniper" in the sense of someone hiding with a rifle and shooting people from a distance.

2 snipers in buildings on upper floors so the police couldn't find cover easy. 3rd guy was on the street level wearing body armour with an AR-15 keeping the cops busy. Definitely not a spur of the moment thing.

They have 3 in custody, the 4th either shot himself after a firefight with the cops or was shot during it or both. They still don't know if it was only 4 involved or not though.

Now its like the world's most enraging catch 22. If this results in police reform and/or gun control reform I'm going to be pissed because it says that piles of dead black people and piles of dead children weren't important enough. But now that its affecting cops, well, we have to do something.

If this doesn't result in police/gun reform then I'm going to be pissed because it settles it once and for all that America and/or its politicians just do not fucking care. No matter how many bodies you throw at their feet. America is terminally ill.

[TheHuckster]

I don't know if I can fault them for that, if it shines a spotlight on the racist violence that cops perpetrate against people of color.

I sure can. This is the same thing that people like Timothy McVeigh and others have used to justify their actions. McVeigh was pissed at what happened in Waco, and so he decided to bomb a building which killed feds. How's that for "evening the score"?

The only thing the Dallas officers shared with the officers who have unjustifiably killed innocent civilians is their job title. Nothing else. There is nothing justifiable about this. Nothing. When you start defending people for killing others just because others of their kind have committed crimes, you're defending a very violent and destructive mindset which will not improve anything.

I acknowledge there's a serious problem in the police force. While I believe the individuals committing murder are in the minority of police officers, I contend there's still a culture in the police force of defending that minority's actions and trying to cover up what they've done. That still doesn't justify what happened in Dallas.

If you think you can't fault cop killers because it shines a spotlight on a problem, that's a very poor viewpoint. Innocent officers lost their lives, each of which belonged to a family in some way, and further escalated an already violent issue. It's deplorable to believe one isn't at fault for killing someone just because they wore a badge that had been abused by others.