Dallas Protest Firefight

[mjr]

There's a story now that one of the shooters said he was "ex military" and "wanted to kill white people".

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/07/08/c...-white-people/

On top of that, the Dallas police used a "bomb robot" and blew the guy up.

Addendum: A "black power" group is claiming responsibility:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...-power-8378177

[Gravekeeper]

The robot bomb thing is worrisome. On one hand yeah, it was a good way to neutralize the guy without putting any officers in harms way. On the other hand, using explosives is a pretty significant escalation of domestic law enforcement.

[TheHuckster]

Yeah the bomb robot thing doesn't make sense to me. You might as well give police officer grenades and satchel charges. Such a device would only work for a very low number of situations, such as when you know for sure the suspect is alone without any hostages or other bystanders and truly can't do anything else to neutralize the threat.

[Jetfire]

The Bomb robot doesn't really bother me that much. From what I understand they used a bomb disposal robot to... well to dispose of a bomb in the idiot's lap basically. They're basically using equipment at hand to end a situation as safely as possible.

It certainly isn't a method that would be used often (it heavily depends on circumstances; after all those bomb robots ain't cheap, and probably only really feasible in hardened structures like a car park). But if it can end the standoff and save lives, go for it.

As for the situation at large, from what I'm hearing, these idiots couldn't have picked a worse PD if they had tried. Unlike the PDs in Ferguson and similar places, I'm hearing the Dallas PD has a very positive and close relation with the community in general, and has had one for years. The police last night were escorting the march, but were participating in it as much as escorting it before everything went to shit. Hopefully this incident will draw the community and police closer together instead of driving them apart; unity in general is what is needed down there now.

Finally, again from what I'm hearing, a sniper would properly describe the shooters. They were hitting exact targets from a distance, in the dark of night (with the random lights of a city). Those aren't shots an amateur is going to be making; these idiots had some training from somewhere. (I believe one is already confirmed to be ex-military).

[Gravekeeper]

As for the situation at large, from what I'm hearing, these idiots couldn't have picked a worse PD if they had tried.

Can't say as I've heard much about the Dallas PD one way or another. Which is probably a good thing. However that just makes said terrorism all the more effective. The worst America has to offer is already dancing around using this as justification for all their awfulness.

While I'd say for the black community the media fallout of this is going to make it even worse. The narrative is already a constant. Black victims get portrayed as having some reason they "deserved" to be shot by police. While white mass shooters are always "lone wolves" who can never be inspired by nor taint the reputation of their associations.

Certain loud categories of the media and America in general are going to paint anyone darker than milk with this entire fiasco for years. White people are allowed to be individuals making independent decisions. While black people are always expected to be representative of their entire race.

Like I was saying, if anything gets done because of this it will look like nothing else mattered until it happened to the police. If nothing happens because of it, then it will look like nothing matters anyway.

[Gravekeeper]

Oh you fucker.

Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick called protesters who ran away from the hail of bullets that rained down on Downtown Dallas on Thursday night "hypocrites" during an interview Friday on Fox News.

"All those protesters last night, they turned around and ran the other way expecting the men and women in blue to protect them. What hypocrites!" an audibly emotional Patrick said.

As Gov. Greg Abbott issued on open letter calling on Texans to calmly unite and come together, Patrick took a more combative tone. He blamed Black Lives Matter protesters for the violence against police and said people "with big mouths are creating situations like we saw last night."

[Talon]

Oh you fucker.

Linky: http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime...-s-bullets.ece

Way to go dumbass, good fucking job de-escalating the situation!

[Gravekeeper]

http://mashable.com/2016/07/08/dalla.../#F4m1n.iKyuqn

Mashable asked a spokesperson for Dallas PD over the phone why the tweet was still online. "Because we're keeping it on there," came the reply.

So much for the Dallas PD not being assholes.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

You know, having intentionally steered cleared of these boards because living here and having friends who were in that firefight I knew it would make me mad. That said I'm a glutton. I'll just say a few things then disengage.

Re: the Dallas PD specifically, I get the anger at seeing suspects posted early but (again having lived here), there was an active shooter on the loose and the fear was more violence was imminent. They fucked up. They eventually corrected it. Things were very chaotic. My friends got locked down and by the time I went to sleep they still didn't have the number of shooters right. The number was 1.

The DPD has been engaging with BLM. This is a test case of the Department you DON'T go after. It has a sketchy history, but their recent history has been more along the lines of community policing, de-escalation training, and largely engagement. They've been verifying old cases to check for wrongful imprisonment. So there is a part of me, reading the two sides not even go 24 hours before pointing fingers is making me extremely irate.

And on that I'm out. Abbott and the Texas state Govt. are going to say asinine things because they don't live in Dallas. They represent the suburbs and rural areas and the generalization is fine for them if it makes things dangerous here. And the reflexive whining that we're even talking about 5 officers taking bullets on the left should be taken for the BS that it is as well. I think it was David Brooks on NPR today that basically (being the conservative he is) spun it, but I do think in this case he was accurate. The problem is, as a society we've becomes good, so adept, and so complacent about our generalizations that we can't stop "activating" crazy.

You could fix it, but it requires... well, we stop this "your side/my side" bs we do on these topics. And I was seeing that start an hour after it happened this time. We don't even wait a mourning period or a respectful period of time before starting. Our deaths (non-specific people) are entertainment.

Five officers died. It's a thing that happened. I'm going to continue processing. Carry on.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime...amatically.ece

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/la...-zero-sum..ece

[Gravekeeper]

Re: the Dallas PD specifically, I get the anger at seeing suspects posted early but (again having lived here), there was an active shooter on the loose and the fear was more violence was imminent. They fucked up. They eventually corrected it. Things were very chaotic. My friends got locked down and by the time I went to sleep they still didn't have the number of shooters right. The number was 1.

Well, the problem is the guy immediately went to police and turned over his weapon to avoid getting shot in the confusion. Then they put out the twitter APB on him. He immediately turn himself in when he saw it. Was interrogated in a pretty bullshit fashion. But cleared and released.

Then they left his name and picture up as a suspect ( and PR wise were dicks when asked why ). Letting it keep circulating around social media and other news outlets. Now that they've finally retracted it they haven't issued any clarification despite the position they've put him in. Given what has happened in previous incidents with people being misidentified on social media this is unacceptable if not outright dangerous. Given the amount of death threats the poor guy is receiving.

The DPD has been engaging with BLM. This is a test case of the Department you DON'T go after. It has a sketchy history, but their recent history has been more along the lines of community policing, de-escalation training, and largely engagement. They've been verifying old cases to check for wrongful imprisonment. So there is a part of me, reading the two sides not even go 24 hours before pointing fingers is making me extremely irate.

But like I said, if your objective is terrorism and sparking further conflict between police and the black community then this was probably the perfect target. It gives the pro-cop side a scapegoat to dismiss the concerns of the black community because this happened to a department that hasn't been in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons. Further alienating them from law enforcement and making the whole situation even worse.

Mix in fuckheads like the Lt Gov and similar politicians/media personalities stirring up more us vs them shit and its just a disaster all around.

The problem is, as a society we've becomes good, so adept, and so complacent about our generalizations that we can't stop "activating" crazy.

Redstate of all places had a really good article on the problem:
http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/...las-yesterday/

[Estil]

1. Serve the public trust
2. Protect the innocent
3. Uphold the law

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it routine and tradition for all new police officers to raise their right hand to God and swear to do the above (paraphrasing of course; exact words will vary). Whether there is racism involved or not, it is appalling that far too many "officers" don't do what they were sworn to do.

[Hyena Dandy]

I've honestly seen too many people talking about how this is good for me to think that it's some agent-provocateur. The conversation around this has gotten increasingly more violent. I see people who started out talking about how the violence in Ferguson was just a small group, rare, and that such things are rare, now going on to talking about how violence by protestors is like the American Revolution, it's a good thing, it's overthrowing powerful people, and that if you think that it's BAD, then you're the problem! It would be a surprise if this wasn't an extension. You keep reading about how violence here is justified, violence here is right, violence by the oppressed against their oppressors is necessary... Until eventually, someone who's been on the wrong end of too much sees an opportunity and lashes out.

It's just one person, and honestly, it wouldn't matter if it was a thousand people committing acts of violence, because either police officers are using excessive force or they aren't. The truth isn't effected by how many guns get fired.

[Gravekeeper]

1. Serve the public trust
2. Protect the innocent
3. Uphold the law

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it routine and tradition for all new police officers to raise their right hand to God and swear to do the above (paraphrasing of course; exact words will vary). Whether there is racism involved or not, it is appalling that far too many "officers" don't do what they were sworn to do.

You're conflating it a bit with Robocop. >.>

It's:

"On my honor, I will never betray my badge, my integrity, my character or the public trust. I will always have the courage to hold myself and others accountable for our actions. I will always uphold the Constitution, my community, and the agency I serve."

[BlaqueKatt]

The Bomb robot doesn't really bother me that much. From what I understand they used a bomb disposal robot to... well to dispose of a bomb in the idiot's lap basically. They're basically using equipment at hand to end a situation as safely as possible.

Really?

When did we suspend the right to due process and go straight to execution "because he's bad guy"?

Ironically, the shooter's death by grenade robot actually PROVES there's a problem with police overreach. Three others who targeted police weren't summarily executed, without trial with a POUND of C4.


And yeah using what is essentially a drone, on US soil, to kill someone without trial is a REALLY BIG DEAL.
source

[mjr]

Really?

When did we suspend the right to due process and go straight to execution "because he's bad guy"?

Ironically, the shooter's death by grenade robot actually PROVES there's a problem with police overreach. Three others who targeted police weren't summarily executed, without trial with a POUND of C4.


And yeah using what is essentially a drone, on US soil, to kill someone without trial is a REALLY BIG DEAL.
source

From what I've read, the guy was determined to take out as many police officers as he could from his location. The police had reason to believe he had body armor and ammunition. They tried negotiating with him, and the ordeal had gone on for six hours or more. It's likely the guy wanted to die, and apparently negotiations had broken down completely, and he was starting to fire on officers again.

But here's an article from the Dallas Morning News, where the Police Chief decides when he was going to use the BombBot.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local...one-gunman.ece