Attack in France leaves over 84 dead

[Talon]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36800730

At least 84 people have been killed, including more than 10 children, after a lorry slammed through a crowd celebrating Bastille Day in the southern French city of Nice.

So tired of seeing headlines like this.

[Greenday]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36800730



So tired of seeing headlines like this.

You won't stop seeing them if people keep trying to bury thekr heads in the sand pretending they'll go away if we ignore them.

[Canarr]

You won't stop seeing them if people keep trying to bury thekr heads in the sand pretending they'll go away if we ignore them.

Whereas running around scared like chicken with their heads cut off, scrambling for the next big piece of security theater, increasing surveillance and cutting into personal liberties - that is going to stop these attacks? At some point they'll think, "You know what? I think we've scared them enough. Let's do someone else for a change."

You cannot prevent attack such as this one in Nice. Not 100%, because someone will always slip through the cracks, and there are just too many public events all over Europe where you have enough people that killing a few dozen isn't a challenge. It's impossible to prevent, and anybody claiming otherwise is just trying to push whatever agenda they currently have.

[Greenday]

Whereas running around scared like chicken with their heads cut off, scrambling for the next big piece of security theater, increasing surveillance and cutting into personal liberties - that is going to stop these attacks? At some point they'll think, "You know what? I think we've scared them enough. Let's do someone else for a change."

You cannot prevent attack such as this one in Nice. Not 100%, because someone will always slip through the cracks, and there are just too many public events all over Europe where you have enough people that killing a few dozen isn't a challenge. It's impossible to prevent, and anybody claiming otherwise is just trying to push whatever agenda they currently have.

We know where ISIS is. This isn't some hidden group. We eliminate them in Syria and Iraq and they stop recruiting elsewhere because they are too busy being dead.

[Gravekeeper]

We know where ISIS is. This isn't some hidden group. We eliminate them in Syria and Iraq and they stop recruiting elsewhere because they are too busy being dead.

Yes, cus that worked so well the first time.

[Canarr]

We know where ISIS is. This isn't some hidden group. We eliminate them in Syria and Iraq and they stop recruiting elsewhere because they are too busy being dead.

What Gravekeeper said.

Honestly, have you learned absolutely nothing from the fiasco that was Iraq? Bush bombed that country into submission after 9/11, invaded it, killed Hussein, and basically paved the way for ISIS. They wouldn't be here today, if the US hadn't fucked everything up. With a little help from their Coalition of the Willing, of course.

Now, what if you manage to defeat ISIS? You'll have another country in ruins, with another disenfranchised and angry people looking for someone to blame, ripe for the taking by the next extremist asshole out to build a powerbase for themselves by giving the people what they want - an enemy.

This will not end. The more you smash things to rubble in the Middle East and Africa, the more you will have extremists willing to die in order to kill a few Americans or Europeans in the process.

[Hyena Dandy]

There were terrorists a decade ago, when most ISIS soldiers today were kids. We could kill all the current ones. But new ones will show up.

Their recruitment tools aren't just "Look at our awesome religious stuff." Their recruitment tools are "Hey, remember when your brother had a bomb dropped on his head? Or when an American drone blew up your house because your dad looked like another guy? Fuck those guys, right?" And the 'Fuck those guys' sentiment isn't going to go away.

Most of the people in the middle-east don't even know what 9/11 is. A lot of ISIS fighters were children when Hussein was taken out. This just seems like a bunch of crazy violent people blowing up their shit for no real reason.

I agree that we need to do something to combat the threat of ISIS. But we can't act like they're a modern nation that can have a bunch of officers killed and then they'll surrender and that'll be that. We're not fighting the Nazis, here.

[Greenday]

Yes, cus that worked so well the first time.

Obviously it did. How many attacks has Al Qaeda committed in the West since we've kicked their asses?

[Hyena Dandy]

So what, you think that ISIS is a totally unrelated phenomenon to Al-Qaeda? That there's nothing in common?

We weakened Al-Qaeda, now there's ISIS. But you think that if we do the exact same thing to ISIS, nothing is going to rise out of that?

These groups feed on a lot of things. But one of them is a sense of national humiliation. A need to have something to fight for, someone to fight with, and to drive out the people who are taking your power. If we just kill everyone in ISIS, we'll just open a new range for a new extremist group.

Edit: Also, consider how much of ISIS's current leadership met in US prison camps, where we put them while trying to get rid of Al-Qaeda.

[Greenday]

We weakened Al-Qaeda, now there's ISIS. But you think that if we do the exact same thing to ISIS, nothing is going to rise out of that?

No, we weakened Iraq's government and Syria's government. And then Iraq kicked us out prematurely before they were ready to establish full control over their country.

[s_stabeler]

I think it's more accurate to say that we went into Iraq without properly planning for the aftermath, including how to rebuild the Iraqi government
mistakes that were made:

1. de-baathification- specifically, how de-baathification worked was that any public sector employee that was a member of the Baath party was fired and banned from future public sector work. That is a problem because of two reasons. a) many employees fired were only members of the baath party because it was either a requirement or an advantage in getting the job. b) it meant many skilled workers were fired- and were therefore disaffected, and ripe candidates for recruitment by terrorists. ( for example, one reason that ISIS have been as effective as thye have been is they were given proper military training by ex-members of Saddam's Iraqi Army)
2. taking too long to establish security in the aftermath of the fall of Saddam Hussein. Following |Saddam's downfall, there was massive looting, which wasn't controlled for a while. That's not good, because it caused fear for their security, which could be exploited by terrorists.

[Gravekeeper]

Obviously it did. How many attacks has Al Qaeda committed in the West since we've kicked their asses?

They didn't need too. You did exactly what they hoped you would and more. You changed your entire way of life out of fear and then went tromping around the middle east. The level of political and economic damage they inflicted on America is staggering.

You could "kick their asses" another 20 times over and still not come close to reaching the level of damage they did. Nor the ongoing level of damage your reaction has caused.

So...yeah. -.-

[Canarr]

The list of fuck-ups is long, and I'll readily admit it's not just the US at fault here; while you did gallop ahead into the heart of the shitstorm, there were enough other countries who followed, willingly. And the EU's gross bungling of a refugee policy isn't exactly helping, either.

But the main point is: you didn't kick Al Qaeda's asses. Sure, you killed a bunch of people, and you blew up a bunch of countries, but in the end, you let them win. Why?

They didn't need too. You did exactly what they hoped you would and more. You changed your entire way of life out of fear and then went tromping around the middle east. The level of political and economic damage they inflicted on America is staggering.

You could "kick their asses" another 20 times over and still not come close to reaching the level of damage they did. Nor the ongoing level of damage your reaction has caused.

So...yeah. -.-

THIS.

You screwed up your country - your economy, your standing, your principles, your liberties, your soldiers. And for what? A bunch of terrorists who could never, not in a million years, have done the damage you happily did yourself.

You lost. And we all lost with you.

[Greenday]

The list of fuck-ups is long, and I'll readily admit it's not just the US at fault here; while you did gallop ahead into the heart of the shitstorm, there were enough other countries who followed, willingly. And the EU's gross bungling of a refugee policy isn't exactly helping, either.

But the main point is: you didn't kick Al Qaeda's asses. Sure, you killed a bunch of people, and you blew up a bunch of countries, but in the end, you let them win. Why?




THIS.

You screwed up your country - your economy, your standing, your principles, your liberties, your soldiers. And for what? A bunch of terrorists who could never, not in a million years, have done the damage you happily did yourself.

You lost. And we all lost with you.

So fighting terrorism caused the housing market bubble to burst? Or the mortgage crisis? Or reckless Wall Street Spending? Yea okay. And if our standing went down because he refused to sit home like sissies while being attacked, I'm fine with that. The lesser countries who think that of us really don't phase me.

[Gravekeeper]

So fighting terrorism caused the housing market bubble to burst? Or the mortgage crisis? Or reckless Wall Street Spending? Yea okay. And if our standing went down because he refused to sit home like sissies while being attacked, I'm fine with that. The lesser countries who think that of us really don't phase me.

Need some more straw? -.-

You shoveled away billions of dollars, unilaterally invaded a sovereign nation, destabilized the power balance in the region paving the way for shit like ISIS, threw away the very rights and liberties you've spend a hundred years screaming for, lowered yourself to torture, suspended the principles of your justice system, threw away the good will of the entire planet, got god knows how many innocent people killed, poisoned your entire political discourse and now the entire festering boil you've been nursing for years has come to a head with candidate Trump.

After 9/11 you could have spearheaded the charge against terrorism and the entire world would have followed you. You could have crushed Al-Qaeda and anything like it with the backing of the whole globe. But instead you pivoted to Iraq, took a dump in the world's outstretched hand then acted confused about where the smell was coming from.

So crawl your way out of Uncle Sam's ass and have a look around at what you "won". If your national ego is so fragile you need to turn the world upside in case someone calls you a sissy then maybe you should start building those walls. If only to save the rest of us from you.