Local mall adopts extreme curfew

[PepperElf]

I was going to post this over in sightings but... Hell just writing it out I realized it was more for fratching.

So here it is...

The local mall here has a new "curfew" policy for unescorted minors. On Fridays & Saturdays all teens under 18 have to be with a parent/guardian.

So if you're there alone you have to leave the premises.

If you are there with your parents/guardian you have to STAY with them. So no dropping the kid off at a bookstore while the parents go look at another store.


Their reasoning is that "it's private property, we can make this rule". The person writing the article was quick to point out how much public money went into building the mall (which is true - they demanded a LOT of cash from the city)


Personally... I think it's overkill. I can see doing something like that *later* in the evening, but at 4pm?

HELLO? Not every under-18 teen there in the mall after 4pm is there to cause hate and discontent. I remember what I was like when sis and I were that age... we went to the mall to shop and watch movies... not to hang out and be shitheads


Plus I kinda wonder... if it's exactly legal. Cos what if you made the deciding factor something besides age? Would the "private property" disclaimer work if the mall picked race, gender, religion, or even elder-ages as the factor for their 4pm rule?

And on top of that... What about under-17 teens who have mall jobs? It would be pretty crappy to go on a dinner break, or have a potty break... only to have mall security try to kick you out for being the wrong age.

[Greenday]

At least with having teens in the mall, it's keeping them off the streets.

[Dreamstalker]

The age curfew makes sense if you think about it; if given the chance, a percentage of bored teens there on their own tend to cause trouble such as shoplifting and general chaos.

A mall near me actually had a gangbanger pissing contest that culminated in a double stabbing; I'm not sure if they presently have a curfew, but they did enact one for a couple months after the incident and it helped.

[DesignFox]

Someone did post something like this on CS a way while back.

Unfortunately for most teens, their shithead brethren have ruined it for everybody.

Maybe I'm getting old, but I never ever ever go shopping on Friday or Saturday nights because I can't stand the teenagers. Most of my experience (when I used to work in the mall) was not pleasant when dealing with the kids. They tended to hang around, block doorways, created messes (sometimes the moment after we had gone through and cleaned) and intimidated the families with small children that were trying to patronize our store (it was a very family oriented store I worked in).

We made a game of figuring out friendly ways to scare teens out. We didn't want to be rude, and we certainly never chased out the kids that were being polite.

Anyway...

How they deal with the kids that work in the mall is an excellent question. The only thing I can think of is that the kids would be in uniform or have their name badges on during their working hours. So I would think security wouldn't bother them when they are on break- they'll see the uniform or nametag.

I think 4pm might be a little early to be chasing the kids away. But other than teenagers taking a stand and then behaving themselves better (as a whole), I see no real solution to the situation.

It is very sad. Because I know a lot of really nice kids who don't deserve to be umbrella'd under this rule. I know a few teens who I very much care for and don't mind having around. It sucks that those kids have to suffer- and I understand their frustration because I was at that place once myself (the good kid being treated like a criminal simply for being a teenager).

There are no such curfews imposed in my area. So, I try to shop in off hours. Not weekends, and generally before 2pm.

[crazylegs]

My day is spent working with youths and anti social behaviour.

The two are not always walking hand in hand.

While there are some youths that are hell bent on being disruptive and acting in an unruly manner there are just as many (if not more) adults acting in this way. There is an intense distrust of youth and young people that a gathering or group of them surely means trouble; this is an horrific misrepresentation.

However when disorder does break out amongst a group of youths the volume is generally higher (for some reason volume control disappears) and the language is foul (something to do with teenage brain circutry perhaps, the rewiring of the brain preventing effective communication?).

There is also the old adage, that people only seek information that reinforces their own view on life, the mall (and the adults that use it) will not notice the few hundred young people who use the area day in day out without any trouble but as soon as a group becomes rowdy that is enough evidence to label all youth.

Yes there are some youngsters that are awfully behaved in public, but a blanket ban I'm not so sure on. If they can evidence a huge amount of damage that can be directly evidenced to be caused by young people then I could see their point, but until that time I would say it's a wrecking ball to crack a walnut.

[PepperElf]

and the language is foul

eh.... o wait never mind, yeah compared to how normal people talk it's probably really foul... compared to how sailors talk it's like listening to a 5 year old saying "darn"

but now for some devil's advocate stuff

mall near me actually had a gangbanger pissing contest that culminated in a double stabbing;

what is that had all been say... Race-Z doing the gang stuff.
by the same reasoning you could say "well race-z has a curfew".

of course that won't happen because public outcry would be ferocious but...

in a way i don't see it as anything different.

an entire group is judged by how individuals act
and then punished by extreme rules

and for teens working... perhaps they might wear a uniform, though some stores use smocks and i'm not sure if the staff are allowed to wander the mall and eat lunch wearing them.

i'm also wondering ... is it legal?

Private property... ? Most of their funding was purchased with taxpayer money.
Granted this was purchased before anyone here age 17 was working but... that's another factor to consider.


The mall demanded the public funding, claiming it would be a benefit to the city.
now it's "private property"?

[Dreamstalker]

I have no idea what race the gangbangers were, assholish gang posturing around here is a sport partaken of by anyone who thinks they want to.

If the building is not actually owned by the city, then it is private property in terms of security, rules, etc (same concept as a store reserving the right as private property to refuse service/entrance).

[Sylvia727]

If the mall was built with city money, then it should adhere to city standards. If it is a business open to the public, then it should adhere to standard discrimination laws. I'm not sure how either would tie into possible age discrimination. If the mall is having a large problem with teenage delinquincy, then they should be able to restrict teenagers' opportunity to cause trouble. But that doesn't mean they can punish all teens. It's a balance, and it depends in large part on how much trouble they've been having with teenage delinquincy. Could the problem even be solved with 30 or 40 specific bannings? If it's large scale, probably not, but if there's a specific group or groups of teens hanging around, maybe so. The parent/guardian requirement bothers me strongly. I'm very close to my younger siblings, and I often take each of them out for sibling bonding and free babysitting. Sometimes we bring one of their friends. I am perfectly capable of supervising two tweens, even though I'm only ten years older and I'm not related to one of them. My uncle has an informal mentoring relationship with a neighbor girl, but he's not trusted to supervise her in public? Where are they supposed to go?

A mall local to myself has a curfew of 6 pm on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays for those 16 and under. My mom couldn't hang out at a mall with her teenaged daughter for several hours each weekend, even if she were that closely involved with my social life. My friends and I just went to a different mall. We didn't cause trouble; we window-shopped respectfully, spent our pocket money, ate dinner at the fast food court, and if all else failed, sat on the benches and talked. When I was 17, a security guard at the curfewed mall stopped me and carded me. Even after he saw how old I was, he bothered me about being "barely old enough" until I just walked away from him. The whole incident left a bad taste in my mouth about this particular mall, and I just stay away, even now.

[Cat]

My local mall doesn't have a curfew yet, but its had a few problems with riots (not really an exaggeration there) and those involved are teen or people in their 20s.

I will never go there on the weekend (unless I wanna hit up the cool wing place with the fun trivia games) because there are too many youngins (under 25) running around and just being asses.....


A curfew will never go through, because I am sure there would be eve more riots.

It is a real shame for those that go to the mall to work, shop, or just have fun...a little rowdiness is ok, but running, pushing, riots...not good at all.

[tabbyblack13]

A major mall in Minnesota has a curfew due to teenagers. There was a group of them on an escalator trying to push each other off while two stories above the plaza. This was the last straw for the mall owners. Even though the city payed for part of the mall a curfew can be done. If there is a chance that more people will start coming and spending money the city will most likely support it. Especially if the city gets tax money.

I agree that 4PM is strict but if it allows people to go around without felling threatened then it would be a good idea. Just not a practical one due to the amount of teens trying to converge on the weekend.

[powerboy]

I applaud them for making a curfew. I would rather feel safe, when i am out, instead of feeling like I will get killed or something - because of some stupid-ass-gang banger-wanna be-asshole, trying to act cool infront of his/her friends.

[crazylegs]

Studies have shown that peoples perception of youths causing problems far outweigh what they are actually doing

When an interviewer asked people in a housing project where the most dangerous spot was, they mentioned a place where young persons gathered to drink and play music, despite the fact that not a single crime had occurred there.

[blas87]

I'm only a few years older than a teen. I'm 22.

I have went shopping a lot lately with my boyfriend on the weekends, since we're trying to quit going out to drink, and the mall and the movies are pretty much the only options.

I absolutely hate the hordes of teenagers that are running around the mall, climbing on top of tables in the food court...I mean yes, climing on top of tables and throwing chairs and running around. These aren't little kids. They are young adults. Teens anywhere from probably 13 to maybe even close to MY age. And it's SICK!

They tear apart stores, throw clothes all over the floor, shoplift.....and speaking of which, my bf and I saw a girl at Hot Topic who shoplifted and an officer was attempting to arrest her and she was fighting with two large male officers! Two grown men at least in their late 20s and both well over 6'0 and still young enough cops to be in good shape, not fat cops yet. This stupid little teenage girl was brawling with two large male cops because she didn't want to get busted for stealing something stupid like blue eyeliner or some other stupid Emo shit from that store for boyfriend and his Myspace haircut and his girls' skinny jeans.

Teenagers are vicious and disgusting. I was one once. When I was teen, a lot of us were like that as well. But not as bad as they HAVE gotten these days. A few years ago, you'd see teens running around and climbing on things and stealing....but once they got banned, they were BANNED. The local mall here rarely enforces banning anymore.

I'd be more in favor of the mall in question changing curfew to a little later, maybe 6 or 7 as 4 is a little harsh....but I definetly think more teens need more discipline and something better to do than go around trashing malls!

[the_std]

I think it's discrimination, pure and simple. The vocal minority get noticed and then blanket rules are passed. If you want to fix the problem, get more security in and ban the people making problems.

I've always resented ageist discrimination, because it exists in so many accepted forms. And I agree with PepperElf on this one. It is the exact same thing as if a certain race was causing problems, and then laying down a ban for that race.

The lack of respect that society has for the young is terrible and makes me sad every time it comes up.

[crazylegs]

The lack of respect that society has for the young is terrible and makes me sad every time it comes up.

This is the only form of descrimination that is left, that is allowed to continue (other discrimination DOES occur, but penalties follow it...). We demonise them, we are afraid of our youngsters, but why?

Part of my job is to confiscate alcohol from those under the age of 18 while they are in a public place. I do this rather regularly, and I do it all by persuasion. I don't have cuffs, baton or spray yet I will willingly walk towards a group of 40-50 youths, and seize/destroy their alcohol because I know that with the exception of a tiny minority they are decent, polite kids. If I were to show the same group to a less well informed person they'd be of the opinion that these kids were one step away from a riot.