Selling a purebred = evil in the eyes of everyone

[Seshat]

I just don't see how some piece of paper or AKC registration makes a dog 'better'. I mean...it's a dog. It just....confuses me. But, like I said, hey, it's a free country, do what you want.

It doesn't.

However, carefully selecting sire and dam from lines with no known hip dysplasia, patellar luxation, mitral valve disease, or other genetic disorders can make a healthier puppy.

Selecting sire and dam from lines where every traceable ancestor has a particular type of temperament increases the chance that the puppy has that temperament.

Selecting sire and dam from lines where every traceable ancestor has certain activity level needs, certain grooming needs, and so forth, increases the likelihood that the puppy will have those needs and not some other.

And so on, and so forth. Even the shape of the body can be a predictor of health issues, so some breed societies are changing their conformation standards accordingly.


All of this means that a person can go to a good breeder, and get a dog with a very high likelihood of being suited to their lifestyle, and a very low likelihood of genetic disease. But only if the person and the breeder are both smart about it.

No good breeder would sell me a golden retriever or a Australian Blue Heeler. I'm too disabled to give them the activity and purpose they need. But such a breeder would happily sell me any of the short-coated, low-exercise companion dogs: especially since my best friend loves to walk our existing dog and would happily give the companion the daily walk that would help keep him healthy.



Now, having said all of that: our existing dog is a shelter dog. Her breed is so mixed all they could say was that she seems to be some sort of terrier. She does have patellar luxation, and it's going to cost us upwards of $1,500 AUD to fix it. Yes, we could get a dog from a good breeder for that!
(Think of AUD as approximately equal to Canadian dollars.)

She's still scared of sticks, and still frets when someone is watching her eat, afraid that we'll hurt her to take it from her.
She still barks more often and more loudly than we want her to.

But she's learned that even when she gets excited, we want her to pay attention to us and to be guided by us. She's trying very, very hard to remember to do that!

She's extraordinarily eager to please, and the phrase that makes her happiest is 'good girl'. She even likes it better than 'walk'!

She'll learn tricks just for the attention and praise. But a little bit of treat food never goes astray either.

Our shelter dog is the perfect dog for us. But yes, getting a shelter pet is more of a game of luck than getting a pet from a good breeder who works extremely hard to improve the breed's health and predictability of temperament.

[IDrinkaRum]

There are, of course, exceptions.

Back home, a lot of people shell out LOTS of money for labs, because they're traditional 'huntin' dogs. Every one of them I've ever come across is dumb as a brick. We always had mutts that were either given to us or dumped on us. The dog my parents have now was dumped on us. He's 6, has had no health problems, and is the smartest, cleverest, sweetest dog I've ever known.

Labradors are known to be stupid until the age of 3. If you can survive that type of dog until the age of 3, then you'll have a great dog, hunting or not, from then on. (My ex-idiot ... er .... boyfriend had a purebred lab ... stupid as a bag of rocks).

As for me ... I have 2 shelter kitties. However, if i could, I'd get a purebred Maine Coon cat. I love the look (and my boy cat, I believe has some Maine Coon in him). I'd get a shelter cat again, but if I had the $$$, I'd definitely go to a breeder.

[AFPheonix]

No, buying from a breeder is not just as good or noble.

Supporting good breeders who are looking to improve the breed, who take good care of their animals, make sure they're properly socialized, maybe even competed with a bit, is not a bad thing. As I pointed out, it's a sight better than supporting a back-yard breeder who doesn't ensure the things I listed or supporting a puppy-miller who sells to pet stores. In your eyes, it's not as good, but that's entirely your opinion.
I compete with horses. I like Paints, I ride Paint and Pinto circuit. I've got a show coming up next month I intend to take my 3 year old colt to. A rescue horse is highly unlikely to be the quality that he is, to be papered with 2 associations like he is, or to have the bloodlines that he has.
They are also unlikely to have had the good handling and care in the past that he's had. What would you rather show, a horse that you know is the full package like he is with an extremely good mind and good movement, or one that probably has baggage, physically and mentally?
If you're looking for pet quality, then yeah, go visit a shelter. We've had lots of shelter dogs in my lifetime, and except for a few who were a little tweaked about some things, were just as good for pets and companionship as the papered dogs. If you're looking to compete with your animal, you're more likely to get something competitive if you go to a breeder who's breeding competitive animals.

Not everyone sees animals as products.

I view the horses we've bred as products. I want to have desirable products that people want to have and to ride and keep. To that end, we have well-bred horses with good conformation, good minds, and training appropriate for their ages. That doesn't mean that I don't like them for who they are and don't go moogle them and give them hugs and kisses, or even love some of them dearly.

[Seshat]

BTW, if it matters: I'm the same with humans as I am with animals.

I have chosen NOT to breed a human with me as dam, because of my lousy genetic heritage for health. (IE: I wouldn't wish my genetic problems on my worst enemy, much less a potential kid.)

I also am not taking on a 'shelter' (foster or adoptive) child because I'm simply unable to handle the care requirements for the species. (IE: any kid I was responsible for would suffer neglect, simply because I CAN'T do it.)

[pile of monkeys]

I have two dogs, one rescue, one from the pound. My pound dog was surrended by her previous owners for behavioral issues that are extremely common for the breed. Both my dogs are purebred, as far as we can tell. If they aren't they're pretty darn close, and closer than many that backyard breeders try to pass off as purebred.

That all said, we rescued knowing full well what we were getting into. The few behavioral issues that my dogs have are minor, and the one major one that my older dog has is because he was abused as a puppy. We took these dogs knowing that no matter what, we would be their home for the rest of their lives, regardless of any inconvenience or annoyance they might cause (one of the most common reasons dogs are given up to shelters/pounds is because they are in some way "inconvenient" to their owners' lives- they make messes, they need too much exercise, they had the audacity to exist after a baby was born into the family, etc).

How people acquire their pets is their business. I'd love to see backyard breeders and puppy mills (which supply 99.999999% of pet store puppies) put out of business for good. There are legitimate reasons to get a pet from a legitimate breeder. Unfortunately, legitimate breeders are very very scarce, so most who people think are "reputable" are really BYBs in very thin disguise. I choose to rescue/adopt. That's my choice. If other people make different decisions, that's their choice.

Also, PETA is a bunch of wackjobs and extremist loonies. They make people who actually care about animal welfare look bad. They can get put on an island with the BYBs and puppy millers for all I care. Please don't judge all rescuers/ rescue supporters by PETA. They're nuts. They undermine true animal welfare support.

[Sylvia727]

Wow, why would you do that to a companion?

My mom kept Sunshine waiting for permission to eat because she was testing the dog, and she only did it once. She wanted to make sure that the dog was obedient and would refrain from fulfilling her own wants until her master gave her permission. If Sunshine had started eating, my mom wouldn't have stopped her or punished her. But she would have taken the measure of the dog's temperment and loyalty; very important when one is leaving the dog to guard the children. Yes, technically the older child is babysitting the younger, but my mom feels a lot safer knowing the depths of Sunshine's commitment.

[BlaqueKatt]

Also, PETA is a bunch of wackjobs and extremist loonies. They make people who actually care about animal welfare look bad. <snip> They undermine true animal welfare support.

yes because PETA is not an animal WELFARE group, they are an animal RIGHTS group-huge difference.

[Cat]

I once had a purebreed kitty, and I once let my one of my "mutt" cats have a litter.
I don't regret either, though I will never do it again.

One of my current kitties was a gift, the other is a shelter kitty (the shelter kitty is def "broken goods," he's got herpes, eating issue, but damn, he is worth it, and I love him for it)

I am very interested in purbreed cats, though the idea of "improving the breed" kinda makes me ill...not as common as with dogs, but some cat breeds do have health issue related to the breed.

I will never tell anyone they cannot buy a purbreed. Buy them...I'll rescure more shelter cats then (I wish, lol)


That being said....I would LOVE to get a Maine Coon....a rescued one. Pref a disgruntled orange male one. Then a friendly grey female one.

[Seshat]

I am very interested in purbreed cats, though the idea of "improving the breed" kinda makes me ill...not as common as with dogs, but some cat breeds do have health issue related to the breed.

To me, it really depends on what 'improving the breed' means.

Removing health issues? Wonderful!

Improving temperament/suitability for the environment these animals will live in?
Pretty good, actually. Okay, it makes them unsuited to survive wild, but most of our pet and farm animals have been unsuited to survive wild for a couple of thousand years now.

Improving suitability for specific purposes?
Partly, it depends on the purpose.
Seeing-eye dogs and other disability support dogs are very valuable. Similarly, sheep-herding dogs, quarantine dogs, dogs that help find termites and land mines and so forth. Very important, and these animals are almost always bred for health and temperament as well. I'll be happier when I can take the 'almost' out of that sentence.
Sheep bred for wool quality, cattle for milk quality and output, or for beef quality and quantity... yeah, okay. As long as the animal's health and welfare are also kept in mind.
Animals bred for sport and entertainment: eg, rodeo horses, sports, and some aspects of the show circuit*: maybe. The ones where the breed standard is designed around improving the health of the breed, that's cool. The ones where the health and welfare of the animal is as or more important than the entertainment value: cool.
But make a breed standard that encourages persian cats with muzzles so snubbed they have breathing trouble, and I will NOT BE HAPPY.

* Note: some aspects of the show circuit, and the way the show circuit is run for some breeds, it's all about proving to each other that you're being a responsible breeder. Demonstrating which health problems and temperament issues you've been successfully eliminating. For these, a large part of the show circuit is finding healthy crosses to make: even if you never make them, it's good to know which sires and dams are available that would give you healthy puppies, kittens, colts, calves and lambs.
If we ever end up buying a purebred, it'll be the show circuit and the breed-specific rescues I contact first, to try to find either a rescue of the breed appropriate to my needs, or a breeder who fits my standards.

[McDreidel09]

A few years ago, my grandparents decided to get a dog. They went to the pound and got a beagle.

The beagle wasn't house trained, come to find out, and was to old to train. They had to take him back.

The found a Border Collie breeder in Minnesota and got the runt of the litter and the only one that had brown, instead of black fur patches.

Smartest dog I have ever met. He learns so quickly and he hasn't really had any health problems. The only thing was that when he got his shots, one ear drooped.

Nothing wrong with breeding purebred dogs. I tried to get them to breed him, but they don't want him to become a sex-crazed maniac.

[AFPheonix]

If he was a runt, then he's probably not breeding quality anyways. Besides, most reputable dog breeders stipulate in the seller's contract that the buyer will spay or neuter their pet quality animal.

[McDreidel09]

Well, now you can't even tell that he was. He did get pretty big. Just as a bitty puppy, he was the runt.