Extreme Bulling & Homophobia In School

[Jester]

Point taken.

[powerboy]

On a slightly different note... bullying will never be completely removed... not as long as Utah is still in existence and people here have no problem voting men like Chris Buttars to office

Utah, has nothing to do with bullying in other states. I was picked on when I was a child. And I never even step foot in Utah.

I agree that force is usually the only way to deal with bullies.

That is true. One day in middle school, I finally snapped. I picked one kid up and slammed him into the wall and just held him there. Did I picked on again, after that.......NOPE. And his buddies was behind him and they didn't do anything to stop me.

[smileyeagle1021]

Utah, has nothing to do with bullying in other states. I was picked on when I was a child. And I never even step foot in Utah.

oh, I know Utah has nothing to do with bullying elsewhere... merely pointing out that if bullying ever truly were to be eradicated, Utah would be the last hold out before the practice died.

[Jester]

One day in middle school, I finally snapped. I picked one kid up and slammed him into the wall and just held him there. Did I picked on again, after that.......NOPE. And his buddies was behind him and they didn't do anything to stop me.

Oh hell. That reminded me of the third incident where I took down a bully, this time in high school. Duh. Can't believe I forgot that.

My sophomore year of high school I was 5'8" (as I am now) and barely tipped the scales at 130 lbs. I also took up track, which helped me get much healthier, both from the exercise and from the change in diet from candy lunches to real lunches. Anyway, my mother would pick me up after track practice, often a few blocks from the school at a place she often had appointments. Around this same time, two jagoff stoners (who were larger than me) had decided to start giving me shit (mostly, but not all, verbal) a bit in school but mostly after, when I was making these walks. For the most part I ignored them and held my tongue, but was getting more and more pissed inside.

So one day they were riding me yet again as I walked my route after track. I was pretty much seething inside, and had had about enough. About at that point, my mother pulled up in her Corolla. Her new Corolla. Her new Corolla that she had picked up two days earlier. Yes, THAT new. Had I really thought about that, I might not have done what I did next.

Which was to snap, grabbing one guy by the back of the skull and SLAMMING his head into the trunk of the Corolla right as mom pulled up. The other guy didn't wait around--he took off at a gallop, not waiting for his friend. The object of my wrath got up off the ground, stunned (and I assume with one major headache), took a look at me, and unsteadily jogged off. Leaving behind the very first scratch ever put in that Corolla. I felt bad for my mom (it was her first new car in a long time), but ya know what? I never heard from those two jagoffs again.

I can't say it enough: bullies understand force. Period.


(The irony of these stories is that I have generally not been a violent person and, to be honest, I was bullied quite a bit in school, until about 10th or 11th grade. Why? Because, except for these three incidences, I never really snapped. Why these three? Well, for whatever reason, these particular bullies pushed me too far. In two of the instances, the bullies were making comments about my parents. In one case right after my father had died. Yeah, that didn't sit well with me. Why I didn't go off more on other bullies, or why I snapped on the last two jagoffs, who did not make such comments about my parents, I simply do not know.)

[Slytovhand]

but ya know what? I never heard from those two jagoffs again.

But the question is... did you hear about it from your mom???

[Jester]

But the question is... did you hear about it from your mom???

My mom was of mixed emotions. On the one hand, she was happy that I had stood up to these two idiots.

On the other hand, she was not a fan of violence.

And of course she was not a fan things causing scratches in her new car, jagoff heads or otherwise.

So yeah, I heard about it. Kind of.

[Slytovhand]

Glad she supported you!!

Was it only scratches? I would have thought a nice big dent from a jagoff head...

[Evandril]

I'm sickened by their actions. However, I'm not surprised. Most religious people are taught to hate and abuse people who do not follow their religions, or anyone who is different from them in any way. I actually think that, deep down, most of them are cheering on the bullies in these cases. And in regards to the suicides, I wouldn't be surprised if they are quietly saying to themselves, "Great, one less homo to put up with in this world."

I'm a late comer to this thread, so sorry for the delayed response...but I did take issue with this statement. In my experience, *most* religious people are taught to turn the other cheek...and NOT become the center of attention/controversy. 'Tis like saying most animal rights people are like PETA... Most of them dispise PETA, for the idiocy of their actions...but peta gets the press *shrugs*

I'm not a religious person, by any means...but I do not feel the majority is bad, nor hateful, nor abusive. The problem is, the few that *ARE*...the effect is far out of proportion to their numbers. The same with the Catholic priests who commited sexual crimes, and the corrupt police...the few bad ones paint the entire group with their actions.

[BlaqueKatt]

I'm not a religious person, by any means...but I do not feel the majority is bad, nor hateful, nor abusive.

this is a list of the official stances of 17 major religious groups stance on Gay marriage-all of the Christian groups are against it-and as 71% of the US population identifies as Christian-by standing by and allowing their churches and religious leaders(who represent and speak for them)-to preach hatred and intolerance against this group of people(or any group) they are guilty by association.

I have renounced memberships in several groups I used to actively participate in due to one or two "small things" I did not agree with-I would not stand by silent and let the leaders of those groups claim to speak for me-"she's in our group, our group believes "X" therefore, by her belonging to our group she also believes "X"."

"when they came for the Jews I said nothing......"

I will speak out, and I will be heard-Who will be left to speak when they come for you?

I leave you with some appropriate quotations from Edmund Burke:

"Toleration is good for all, or it is good for none."

"I take toleration to be a part of religion. I do not know which I would sacrifice; I would keep them both: it is not necessary that I should sacrifice either."

"People crushed by law, have no hopes but from power. If laws are their enemies, they will be enemies to laws; and those who have much to hope and nothing to lose, will always be dangerous."

"Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny."

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."

"One that confounds good and evil is an enemy to the good."



And this last one that sums up everything I've typed above-
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"
Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

[Gravekeeper]

Ugh, high school and homophobia. I really never understood it. Hell, I still don't. In the occasions I've been called gay or similar my mental response is always "...wait, is that suppose to be insulting?".

I don't like nor understand the usage of it as some sort catch all term for something lame or bad either. Which creeps up, sadly, quite a bit in the gaming world. It doesn't even make sense. Its actually sort of weird if you think about it. You think the game is "gay"? Oookay. Well, you've been playing it for the last 4 hours and are ranked #1 on the server. So you must be particularly talented at this supposedly gay pass time you're complaining about?

My teachers back in high school really didn't like "gay" or anything similar. They cracked down on it pretty well. So the jocks ( Why is it always the jocks?) started using the term "Yag". Seriously. This was their brilliant idea to get away with calling things and people gay around the teachers. Calling them yag. Which just them look even more tragically retarded than normal.

Yet they'd sit there going "Yeah, that's totally yag man" thinking they were badass. >.>

[Jester]

Was it only scratches? I would have thought a nice big dent from a jagoff head...

Only scratches or a scratch. No dent. Which is good. I feel I did enough damage to her new and shiny silver chariot.

this is a list of the official stances of 17 major religious groups stance on Gay marriage-all of the Christian groups are against it....

Um, no. They're not. I am not a Christian, so I have no particular personal stake in defending Christian churches, but I just read that same list. And I'm sorry, but not all of the Christian churches were against gay marriage.

"Although the Episcopal Church has not explicitly established a position in favor of gay marriage, in 2006 the church stated its “support of gay and lesbian persons and [opposition to] any state or federal constitutional amendment that prohibits same-sex marriages or unions.”

"In 1996, the Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations passed a resolution in support of same-sex marriage."

"In 2005, the General Synod of the United Church of Christ voted to legally recognize and advocate in favor of same-sex marriage"

There are three right there that are not against gay marriage. Two actively support it, and the other has no official position on it. Now, generally speaking, when a group or person has "no position" on something, that does NOT mean they are against it. And it seems that they are more inclined to favor it, incidentally.

Last time I checked, the three above organizations are part of the Christian faith.

as 71% of the US population identifies as Christian-by standing by and allowing their churches and religious leaders(who represent and speak for them)-to preach hatred and intolerance against this group of people(or any group) they are guilty by association.

No. Simply....no. Look, there are a lot of good Christians out there who may not happen to think homosexuality is right. That does not mean that they are preaching hatred and intolerance of it. Just because someone personally believes that homosexuality is not right doesn't mean they are out to destroy homosexuals. I have friends who believe this, but are still friends with gays and lesbians. Why? Because they can separate their religious beliefs (which are the "ideal") from their everyday lives ( which are the "realistic"). Just because I am against Republicans and conservatives does not mean I want them all arrested and beaten. Just because I constantly deride and mock those who went to the University of Arizona as being "wrong" does not mean I am preaching hatred towards them. To say this, and compare it to the Holocaust as you did, is simply stretching things beyond reality.

Yes, the official position of most Christian churches and church groups is that homosexuality is wrong and/or a sin. However, that does not mean that the majority of these churches and groups are preaching hatred. Most Christians that *I* have met, even if they do not think homosexuality is right, would be HORRIFIED by the idea of beating gay men simply for being gay, and while they may be opposed to gay marriage, most Christians I have met can discuss it rationally and reasonably, and I hardly call that "preaching hatred." And most of them also appreciate other people's stance on the issue, and appreciate those people as worthy individuals, even if they believe that those people are on the "wrong" side of the issue.

Most Christians DO believe in "turning the other cheek" and in preaching tolerance and love. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" is a saying spawned by Christians, I must remind you.

Too many people DO turn their hatred on those that they perceived as "wrong" or "sinners," but to paint all Christians with that brush is not any better than painting all homosexuals as "wrong," either.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

Absolutely true. And I dare say that most American Christians would NOT do nothing in the face of evil. They would NOT stand by and allow homosexuals to be slaughtered as the Jews were in the Holocaust. They may not agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but Christianity still preaches love and tolerance. No, not all Christianity, but most American Christianity. Those that preach hatred are not representative of the teachings of Christianity or of Jesus himself.

"The people brought little children to Jesus that he might put his hands on them and bless them. And his disciples found fault with those who brought them and would have sent them away. But Jesus was much displeased with his disciples and said, "Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of heaven." He meant that only those persons who are humble and loving, like little children, shall come into his kingdom. Then he took the little children up in his arms and put his hands upon them and blessed them."

Those who follow the teachings of Jesus, and not some perverted, twisted form of it, will be humble and loving of others, even those they disagree with, and will not allow their "leaders" to preach hatred and exclusion in their names.

Even I, a heathen pagan Jew, know this much.

[smileyeagle1021]

Last time I checked, the three above organizations are part of the Christian faith.

and don't forget the United Methodist church which allows each individual church to decide (the one I go to practices full inclusion)

A lot of Lutheran congregations are coming to embrace their homosexual members as well.

And it seems like every year more churches start opening up to and embracing homosexual members.

[Slytovhand]

Mr J... I was thinking to myself about the whole concept of 'taken out of context', when I realised that what you quoted me from wasn't from this thread....

But anyway... yes, i do believe that if you choose to be a member of a group, and the heirarchy of that group takes a particular stance on a particular subject, unless you advocate (loudly) an opposing stance, or leave the group, you are silently approving of that stance.

Similarly, in other threads, I've also said that if you're a part of a group that has as part of it's 'rules' certain things you don't like, you don't get to have it change to suit you. Either, put up with it, or don't join! Catholics won't allow homosexuals into it's community... don't join if you're gay or lesbian! Simple... none of this "I'm a gay homosexual! Change your stance!" (it makes as much sense to me as "I'm a practising Catholic atheist"... does that make sense to anyone?

[the_std]

Similarly, in other threads, I've also said that if you're a part of a group that has as part of it's 'rules' certain things you don't like, you don't get to have it change to suit you. Either, put up with it, or don't join! Catholics won't allow homosexuals into it's community... don't join if you're gay or lesbian! Simple... none of this "I'm a gay homosexual! Change your stance!" (it makes as much sense to me as "I'm a practising Catholic atheist"... does that make sense to anyone?

It isn't that easy, unfortunately. I went to Catholic schools all my life, despite being an atheist, and saw what happened to many of my Catholic schoolmates who found out that they were gay. It was the most painful thing to happen to them, because here was a religion they'd been raised in, that they loved, that they made a huge part of their lives... And all of a sudden they weren't good enough for it because of their sexual orientation. I'm not exaggerating when I say the Church was their lives, through education, extra-curricular activities, religious ceremonies, counseling services... They lived and breathed the Church. And a lot of them truly, honestly loved the Church. It isn't a matter of getting up and walking away. It destroyed a lot of adolescent lives, unfortunately. One of my classmates committed suicide because of it, and, in his good-bye note, said, "I understand that what I'm doing now is a sin, but I would rather die a sinner than live my life with a sin that I cannot change and that God no longer loves me for."

I wish it were so easy, Slyt. I really do.

[Slytovhand]

I understand STD.. that's why I emphasised 'choose' in my post. Most people don't choose... most people don't even bother to think about what they're brought up with. They just accept it, sometimes disguntledly (if that's a word...)