Is it ever not offensive to be a stereotype?

[jackfaire]

I agree not everyone matches the stereotype nor should we assume they do but should we ban good shows because the characters in them happen to fit a stereotype?

Big Bang Theory. I knew a guy in high school that was very much like Sheldon yet I am told how "offensive" Sheldon is to real geeks who don't act like that. But some do not all and not all awkward guys are into comic books and such.

Sullivan and Son Steve Byrne created the show base on his own half irish half Korean heritage. The mom character is directly based on his own mom but because his mom fits a stereotype he was called a racist. He even does a comedy bit in one of his later stand ups where he is all "Hey mom yeah apparently you're racist for being yourself"

Yes people are layered and deep people but there are people that fit a stereotype. That doesn't mean that it should automatically be offensive if someone acts in a certain way.

And that's a thing that's been popping up a lot lately that people should make sure every instance of a stereotype is followed up by "but not all of them are like this"

Basically shoehorn in a minority character for no reason or some other character with the same interests but completely different persona that wouldn't be likely to hang out with social awkward guys.

I argue this does not and would not work. Here's why.

For years people have been telling me "Jar Jar Binks is a slam on Black people."

You know what he's not even close. Does he act in a way that has been a stereotype ascribed to Black People yes. Is he a racist character no.

Here's why he's just acting the way he does. Absolutely none of the other Gungans we meet act like him. He's even considered an outcast among his own people cuz he's a goofy idiot.

Even the Trade Federation gets that "well they are like this (human species) Nope they are like "this type of person"

And that's the thing. Sure if the only Black guy in the entire movie whose only in the movie so the movie can say they have a black guy and is asked to act in a way that makes no sense for a black guy growing up in the suburbs "Act like you're from the inner city" "but my character grew up two houses down and literally no one else in town talks like this"

Then yeah that's racist as hell.

But just having a character act in a way that real people act and getting mad about it is stupid. I think people need to look at the show, movie, etc and think "what is their background is this really anti-geek, anti-black, or does this make sense for their character"

In Big Bang Theory each one of the characters isn't the way they are because "I'm a geek" but rather because of their background. Leonard is a combination of "Fuck you, I need your approval, and love me" when it comes to people because of his relationship with his mom whose never satisfied with him.

Sheldon grew up a scientific genius in a family that never truly understood him but still tried to love him all the same.

Raj comes from very traditional parents in a different culture. Hell his problem talking to women is mostly likely a reaction to the fear that talking to any woman would have his parents making negotians.

Howard well we have met his mom too.

All of these characters are geeks, socially awkward and "stereotypes" but they all have reasons for being who they are and I argue that if the story can justify the characters then we need to back off and stop proclaiming discrimination when really there are some people we are really discriminating against who shut up quickly mourning "but we act like that we exist too."

[TheHuckster]

Stereotyping is successful because people can, in one form or another, relate to them. The Big Bang Theory is popular because people have geeks and nerds in their own lives that behave like some of the characters in some way. I've been told that I'm very much a Leonard.

And, of course, The Big Bang Theory explores other stereotypes, with Penny as the "dumb blonde," although in more recent seasons she's gotten a lot smarter, Sheldon's mother as the Texas Bible Belt religious nut, Leonard's mother as a stone cold psychologist, and a lot of other one-off characters are stereotypes.

Everyone has known, even as an acquaintance, a Penny, a Mrs. Cooper, and in some shape or form a Beverly Hofstadter, although she definitely takes it to an extreme I don't ever recall observing first-hand.

The point is, a character needs to have some kind of extreme trait in order to be interesting. Theatrics and literature have a concept of archetypes, which is a more general form of stereotyping, but it's an important concept in character creation. If you didn't have these traits, it'd just be a bunch of vanilla characters who don't have much personality. And Leonard, being the "straight man" archetype in the sitcom, shows that you can be a nerd and still be a more or less "normal" person who just happens to enjoy nerdy things.

[jackfaire]

I am talking about people, critics and fans alike, bashing on any character that happens to fall in line with a stereotype.

I am not complaining about shows using Stereotypes. I am genuinely worried that people no longer understand what Stereotyping is.

Stereotyping is assuming that everyone who looks like a hipster will only engage in things they hate.

But that's why I am confused. I have seen two different shows fail because "that's offensive" when it wasn't a stereotype. It was just a character that happens to act in a way that makes sense for that character.

I have repeatedly defended Big Bang Theory because like you Huckster I am very much Leonard. I am not great at social cues until too late.

I had a cute girl I ran into earlier today trying to strike up a conversation with me and I didn't catch it until too late that maybe she thought I was cute too.

I am terrible at this. But people get pissed because in their mind if a character acts in a way that has been declared "a stereotype" the stereotype is then dismissed as not real.

Instead of "not everyone is like that' if something is declared a "stereotype" it becomes "No one is like that"

[mjr]

People will sometimes criticize/bash/put down what they don't understand.

As far a Sheldon goes, many people speculate he's on the Autism spectrum. And since he hasn't been "officially diagnosed", they just let people make their own decisions about that.

But Jim Parsons read a book about Autism, and has stated that Sheldon could not exhibit more characteristics of autism.

That's why when he says, "I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested." he means it. And Mrs. Cooper has said she regretted not following up with a specialist.

It's the same thing with Autism, though. Autism is a spectrum disorder and exhibits many different characteristics. Though one of them is "extreme" focus on one subject or another.

[jackfaire]

People will sometimes criticize/bash/put down what they don't understand.

Again not what I am talking about. I am not talking people saying "people like that suck" I am saying they attack the writers, actors, directors etc saying "hey stop saying people are like that"

For example if Sheldon was diagnosed Autistic they would call his behavior a stereotype of autism and thus offensive. They aren't finding it offensive because people who are like that bother them. They find it offensive because they think people aren't like that.

[Canarr]

I think there are quite a few people who find it offensive because they need something to be offended about. It's virtue signaling - the need to show their own virtue by pointing out people who do something bad.

[s_stabeler]

Big Bang Theory is mildly offensive, but it's more that Sheldon's behaviour is treated as a matter for comedy when, from what's been described, it's a coping mechanism for having been under extreme distress. With Autism Spectrum Disorders, you generally find it far harder- or impossible- to pick up on things not actually stated outright. It's why he has such a strict routine, actually- I can tell you from personal experience- even though I have only mild Asperger's Syndrome- that it causes extreme distress- to the point of obsession until the routine is restored- if the routine is disrupted. It's similar to why he can have a lack of empathy, actually- since he was a wunderkid, coupled with it being somewhat harder for kids with Asperger's, he literally never learned how to.

In short, what can be offensive is that Sheldon's behaviour is portrayed in many ways as being a personality flaw, when in a sense, it's because his parents really couldn't cope with a kid who needed a fair bit of help.(it doesn't help that there aren't many places that can cope properly with Asperger's, as opposed to just medicating.)

[Hyena Dandy]

With Big Bang Theory, what's offensive is not merely that the characters are stereotypes, but that the fact that they're stereotypes is a joke. Far too many of the jokes in Big Bang Theory come down to 'It's amusing that this person is displaying behavior typically associated with nerds.' You get laugh track stuff after not only genuinely comedic moments, but also things where the joke is just "They like science!"

That's why a lot of people feel uncomfortable. Especially people who have had those things mocked.

[mjr]

I guess part of the other issue is the "nerd guys" all have "ailments" of some sort.

Leonard wears glasses, is "short", has asthma, plays cello, and is lactose intolerant. He did however end up marrying Penny.

Sheldon we've pretty much discussed.

Raj had selective mutism, but got over it after his breakup with Lucy. He also had an unhealthily close relationship with Howard, that Mrs. Hofstadter (Leonard's mom, not Penny) described as an "erstatz homosexual marriage".

Howard is supposed to be "nerdy" because he like magic, comic books, etc. And his clothing and awkwardness with women. And he lived at home with his mother into his late 20's, until he married Bernadette. Howard also has some sort of arrythmia.

They're all highly educated, but being highly educated doesn't make someone a "nerd". They're also all socially awkward, and Leonard, Howard, and Raj are shorter than Sheldon.

Of the girls, Amy is clearly the most awkward. She's been described as a "female Sheldon". I think she has more insight into the human condition, but she doesn't necessarily know how to apply it.

[TheHuckster]

With Big Bang Theory, what's offensive is not merely that the characters are stereotypes, but that the fact that they're stereotypes is a joke. Far too many of the jokes in Big Bang Theory come down to 'It's amusing that this person is displaying behavior typically associated with nerds.' You get laugh track stuff after not only genuinely comedic moments, but also things where the joke is just "They like science!"

That's why a lot of people feel uncomfortable. Especially people who have had those things mocked.

The difference to me is while they're portrayed as such, they aren't unlikable characters, and their character development throughout the series has shown that they've been able to overcome the stigma that comes with their personality.

I'm a nerd with different quirks, and I've been made fun of them for much of my life, especially in my early years. I still find the characters here funny, even if I relate to some of their quirks.

Compare to other nerdy stereotypes used in other sitcoms, like Urkel, where the character is annoying and mostly unlikable.

[HYHYBT]

I had no idea playing the cello was an ailment.

[mjr]

I had no idea playing the cello was an ailment.

It's not, and I definitely should have put that elsewhere...but...

"Hey, wanna come back to my place and listen to me play an instrument that sounds like a suicidal bumblebee??" -- Leonard, on playing the cello.