Universities work to purge male students of their ‘toxic’ masculinity

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

When we say "be a man", what is the speaker trying to convey?

The problem here is if the colloquial use of the phrase is valid regardless of who uses it and how, then its an easy target since you can really just pick and choose the use of the phrase you don't like and make it what the phrase means.

The definition I've always seen in 80% of its use is, "have your shit together." Don't make other people do things for you. Don't be dramatic.

Where you see the disagreement is in the application of that ideal however. There's a difference between being dramatic, being healthy emotionally, and showing no emotion. Stoicism is actually its own school of thought and my opinion in this debate is that feminist thought as basically stapled that school of thought to how man behave regardless. That's not to say there aren't men that think the same way either - I'm just saying both are erasing a majority of men by doing so.

Ultimately - the issue is one of gendering behavior. But - and lets be fair here, the entire concept of "toxic masculinity" IS gendering behavior. Now instead of a general positive perceived set of traits that might be connotated by "be a man", toxic masculinity genders perceived negative human traits such as societal/peer pressure to conform, excessive aggressiveness, and sometimes flatly sociopathic behavior.

That is, if we flipped it and talked about a woman, we might say she is being a mean girl or feeling pressured we might say she is dealing with body self-esteem issues - in men, I feel like toxic masculinity has become the catchall for a number of individual issues all with unique causes and manifestations but they fall under at least tangentially related because they are visible as negative excesses in men.

TBH - I came to this conclusion while I was reading The Mary Sue one day and I forget the specific article, but they were talking about the toxic masculinity in a character that was basically (what we would have called before the term), a covetous sociopath (might have been The Force Awakens). The part that was correct was he was a character crushed by the unreasonable burden to be something he couldn't be (Ren), but even unreasonable expectations aren't really a gendered thing. Ren wasn't displaying something exclusive to masculinity, he was displaying something exclusive of whatever the hell his pathology is which was some strange mix of general anxiety, inferiority issues, obvious lonliness, but obvious antisocial personality disorder. None of that was inherently masculine - but how those components manifest because he was a man displaying those traits towards a woman gave it that flavor. That's why I'm not a fan of the phrase - I'm not sure it's a good idea to staple DSM qualifying behavior as gendered. If toxic masculinity is ultimately the failure of a human male to respect other people's spaces, be generally crazy, and strive for unrealistic goals - it's completely at odds of the phrase "be a man." That's a description of a boy. It means grow the fuck up. And that's not always the best message to give a child precicely because children aren't necessarily developed to the point to do that yet. But I'm not sure the phrase is the boogeyman being presented.

Again - not to say the phrase can't be weaponized and used in very destructive ways.

[mjr]

And it continues...

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/30561/

Male college students to undergo ‘critical self-reflection’ of masculinity

[jackfaire]

No one has ever in my life told me "Be a man" for crying over spilt milk or a dropped hot pocket. The only time anyone has uttered the words "Be a man" at me or in my presence was for the specific purpose of informing me that I wasn't behaving to their standard of manliness rather than telling me to be mature, grownup, etc.

There are ways to tell someone they are acting immature that are used frequently. Be a man isn't one of them.

Also the article linked by OP is clearly half assed bullshit that isn't well researched and has 0 credibility and is pushing an agenda not reporting the facts.

[Greenday]

No one has ever in my life told me "Be a man" for crying over spilt milk or a dropped hot pocket. The only time anyone has uttered the words "Be a man" at me or in my presence was for the specific purpose of informing me that I wasn't behaving to their standard of manliness rather than telling me to be mature, grownup, etc.

There are ways to tell someone they are acting immature that are used frequently. Be a man isn't one of them.

Also the article linked by OP is clearly half assed bullshit that isn't well researched and has 0 credibility and is pushing an agenda not reporting the facts.

What about "grow a pair" or some other form?

As for the most recent article, good. Men need to realize we don't have to be a stereotype.

[Canarr]

An interesting counterpoint in this article here. Warning: National Review.

Boys will be boys, but they won't all become men. At their best, shorthand admonitions such as "man up" or "be a man" carry with them the weight of tradition and morality that makes a simple, though difficult request: Deny self. Don't indulge your weakness. Show courage. Avoid the easy path. Some men fall naturally into this role, for others it's much more difficult. The proper response to those who struggle is compassion. It's not to redefine masculinity for the minority.

For a father, there are few more rewarding things in life than helping a son become a man, to watch him test himself in productive ways and to help him cultivate and demonstrate a protective spirit. Among the great gifts a father can give a son is a sense of masculine purpose, and no that purpose isn't a "box", it's a powerful force for good.

Of course, that's the other end of the range. In between, there certainly are lots of instances where men use the call of "be a man!" to belittle someone who doesn't follow their particular ideal of manhood. And while that is definitely a point where more awareness among young men would be a good thing - to help them realize that they can find their "own brand" of manhood - I don't think a blanket condemnation of being a man is a good thing.

[smileyeagle1021]

There are ways to tell someone they are acting immature that are used frequently. Be a man isn't one of them.

My grandma would beg to differ. She told all of her grandchildren when they were being immature "be a man" or "be a woman", with the implied "don't be a child" unspoken. She wasn't trying to tell me that I needed to be tough or my cousin that she needed to be dainty. No, she was reminding us that we wouldn't always be children, some day we would have to be productive men and women in society.
Of course, there are other phrases she could have used, but don't make blanket statements on what things can and can't be.

[gremcint]

The majority of my life has been influenced by toxic masculinity. hiding the fact I enjoyed watching Sailor Moon as a kid so I wouldn't be bullied about it. getting mocked constantly because I wasn't strong enough to fight the bullies back. Getting yelled at by my dad whenever I was upset about the constant bullying at school.

Getting so messed up on so many ideas on what gender is supposed to be that it wasn't until I was almost 30 that I figured out who I was and wanted to be. Knowing that if my dad found out about my crossdressing he'd disown me. Any number of things. You deny toxic masculinity existing you deny half my life.

Watching short film about it is good, because frankly it's a school and they are supposed to educate you.

And it's abuse and a mindset, it doesn't have to be deliberate on a concious choice it's just a pattern of behaviour. These patterns need to be explored and shown why they are wrong.

mocking people for not losing their virginity saying "you became a man" when they lose it. What the fuck business is it of yours how many times I have or not have had sex. It doesn't affect whether or not I'm a man.

The number of people who would beat me to death just for wearing a skirt.

as for the article I can't even finish it the language is so slanted.

[wolfie]

The number of people who would beat me to death just for wearing a skirt.

Send them to Scotland. They'll either change their attitude or get beaten to death.

[mjr]

And then there's this...

https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/32808/

[s_stabeler]

that's...complicated, and I don't deny that I tend to be somewhat suspicious of "white privledge" claims when they get too specific. (by that, I mean I acknowledge that there does appear to be a statistical bias in favour of white people. I don't agree- for example- that it measn only black people can talk about racism (and I vehemently disagree with people who split hairs about white-on-black racism being racism while black-on-while racism is actually just "racially-motivated" or whatever crap they use to describe it.)