"Stealthing" -- have any of you heard of this!?

[mjr]

I've heard of this before, I just didn't know it had a name...

I read an article about this the other day. It's essentially when a couple start sex with the man wearing a condom, and at some point, he takes the condom off, unbeknownst to the woman.

The article was written in the context of "stealthing" being "sexual assault".

Which leads me to the question (mostly for the ladies): Can you feel the difference with/without a condom? I know as a man I can. I don't know if maybe it's a "heat of the moment/height of passion" thing, but I would assume women would be able to tell, too.

Unless, of course, the man does it right before he ejaculates, so that he can penetrate her before she realizes what's going on. I don't know.

I'm wondering if men think this is "funny", if it's some kind of "domination" thing, or if it's maybe the male version of a "baby trap", or what. I don't know.

It also leads me to another question: How would broken condoms play a role in this being possible "sexual assault"?

[Greenday]

First off, women can stealth too. It's not just men who tamper with the use of condoms.

Second, no, not all women can tell the difference between condom vs. condomless. I personally have no trouble telling the difference but my wife can't.

It's definitely sexual assault as your partner didn't agree to unprotected sex. They didn't agree to unnecessary risk of pregnancy, STIs, etc..

[mjr]

First off, women can stealth too. It's not just men who tamper with the use of condoms.

Second, no, not all women can tell the difference between condom vs. condomless. I personally have no trouble telling the difference but my wife can't.

It's definitely sexual assault as your partner didn't agree to unprotected sex. They didn't agree to unnecessary risk of pregnancy, STIs, etc..

Good points, Greenday. I figured most women would be able to tell the difference.

And I agree with you on your first point. But to the last point, how would a legitimately broken condom be handled there? Granted there's a difference in stealthing and a condom breaking but there's still those risks you spoke of.

[s_stabeler]

It depends, but it's not sexual assault, since sexual assault in this context is rape, and "stealthing" does not in and of itself invalidate consent.

However:
1. You are liable for any consequences- that is, if they get pregnant, you need to pay reasonable costs of said pregnancy (by reasonable costs, I mean that the victim can't deliberately jack up the costs of the pregnancy to penalize you) and if they get an STD, you are required to pay for any treatment.
2. If you know you have an STD, and you "stealth" someone, that is a crime (I would create a specific offense of "deliberately infecting someone with an STD"that would be what the crime actually was.).
3. a broken condom is just plain bad luck.

[TheHuckster]

It depends, but it's not sexual assault, since sexual assault in this context is rape, and "stealthing" does not in and of itself invalidate consent.

Sexual consent should be all about context and what you're specifically agreeing to. If my partner lets me finger her, then she's consenting to that, and not me putting whatever else I want into her. If my partner lets me insert anything else but my penis, then inserting my penis should be considered assault. And I can extend that to if my partner lets me insert my penis only with a condom, then inserting it without should be considered assault. What she's really saying is, "Don't insert sperm into me." And if you dishonestly agree to that and then intentionally remove your condom, you've just put something into her that she explicitly did not agree to. That's rape, as much as putting anything else into her that she didn't agree to should be. It's a violation of her body, and nothing less.

[Greenday]

It depends, but it's not sexual assault, since sexual assault in this context is rape, and "stealthing" does not in and of itself invalidate consent.

Wouldn't it invalidate it if you only agreed to have protected sex?

[s_stabeler]

I think there is a difference. Yes, inserting your penis when they only consent to fingering is rape. However, the way I see it, consent is to insertion of the penis, regardless of if it's in a condom or not.

However, I don't disagree that it should be a criminal offence. I just don't see it as being rape specifically.

[Greenday]

I think there is a difference. Yes, inserting your penis when they only consent to fingering is rape. However, the way I see it, consent is to insertion of the penis, regardless of if it's in a condom or not.

However, I don't disagree that it should be a criminal offence. I just don't see it as being rape specifically.

But it's not just consent to insert a penis. It's a consent to have safe sex that prevents disease and pregnancy. It's not consent to risk that stuff. You are forcing unnecessary risks on someone they don't want. And it should absolutely be a criminal offense to force someone to do something sexually they don't want to do.

[catcul]

Hello from the BDSM community. As I was taught, consent is a "yes" answer, not an "absence of no." If the guy agrees to put on a condom to have sex with another adult only to take it off intentionally during the act, that is non-consensual sex. Non-consensual sex is considered rape. It might be rape by fraud instead of forcible rape, but it's still rape. Intentionally sabotaging a condom would be considered rape as well.

As for the broken condom, if a condom either breaks or falls off, that's considered an accident.
Both partners should make sure that doesn't happen in the future.

[gremcint]

"I consent to vaginal sex while you wear a condom.
*doesn't wear a condom*

I didn't consent to that."

sounds like rape to me. It doesn't have to be violent to be rape.

[Tanasi]

This topic came up on local talk radio and an interesting twist was brought up. What about the women that agree to sex but then through deception purposely get pregnant? I've heard of women and men purposely poking a hole in condoms but also women that falsely tell their partner they are on birth-control when they aren't.
Is one worse than the other?

[s_stabeler]

the act itself is just as bad, but there are additional motivations- which can also apply to a man tricking a woman inot getting pregnant- that could aggravate it.(basically, motivation matters)

[Canarr]

Tanasi's question is an interesting one...

"I consent to vaginal sex while you wear a condom.
*doesn't wear a condom*

I didn't consent to that."

sounds like rape to me. It doesn't have to be violent to be rape.

Would you apply the same logic the other way around? If the woman obtains consent for sex with a condom, then sabotages the condom to become pregnant? Leaving aside the difficulty of proving that: would you still consider it rape?

[bara]

Its rape plain and simple.

[bara]

Tanasi's question is an interesting one...



Would you apply the same logic the other way around? If the woman obtains consent for sex with a condom, then sabotages the condom to become pregnant? Leaving aside the difficulty of proving that: would you still consider it rape?

Still rape.