Spike In Military Suicides

[Greenday]

I'm sitting at work, reading my military news, and today there was yet another article on how suicide rates among those in the military and those who just got out of the military have been continually rising. According to this article, the total (considered an underestimate) of military suicides since the beginning of Afghanistan is at least 1,985 soldiers. 1,985 soldiers. Only 683 soldiers have died in Afghanistan so far. 4,296 have died in Iraq. 0.4 suicides for every KIA in Afghanistan and Iraq. That's absurdly high. Already 109 soldiers commit suicide from January 2009 to April 2009.

Obviously the amount of stress on soldiers is ridiculously high. After two, three, sometimes even four tours to the Middle East, expecting them to come out like nothing happened is ridiculous. Also add in that many soldiers are having trouble finding jobs when they get home. Also add in that divorce rates among soldiers is higher than any other war (though there's definitely nothing we can really do about that).

According to the government, about 5,000 veterans a year commit suicide. In 2007, veterans set up a suicide hot line for soldiers who were feeling the need. The opportunity to get therapy for free is there, but many don't go, and very few are actually forced. Doctors must give all soldiers physicals before going back to Iraq/Afghanistan, and from what I've read, many soldiers get pushed through without any sort of a mental health analysis.

So that leaves me with the question: What can we do? Is there more we can be doing? If so, what?

[Slytovhand]

Yes, there is stuff that can be done, there is more that can be done.

I'm way not expert on this at all, but there was just this issue brought up on the radio a couple of months back cos of Aussies serving in East Timor (for example), who had similar mental issues upon return.

The absolute best thing that came out of the radio docco was from a returned vet who offered up his advice and experiences (so that's really all I'm going to relate).

Firstly, there is an urgent need to have trained (and preferably combat or war scenario experienced) counsellors to conduct an intensive interview of all returning servicepeople. The guy who rang sad that while they have some sort of debriefing of returning troops, they obviously had no idea of what was really going on, and it was bascially just a job to them.

Also, there needs to be a much much much stronger stress placed on returning soldiers to go to group therapy, to help get their stuff out, in an atmosphere where they are with other people who they can trust went through something similar, and also need to get stuff out.

I'd suggest that many of those divorces are going to be preventable (presuming they were going to hold together in the first place!), and again, counselling is a good way to help with that (for the remaining spouse).

Said caller said he had used the suicide hotline for vets... and while he got stuff out of it, it wasn't enough. He said he had held onto his crap for quite a while, but finally managed to find someone who he felt he could let it out to, and he said that it made a ton of difference... though it took a fair bit of time (naturally!).


So, GD, why do you have that sig with this post?? (made me laugh when I saw it)

[Greenday]

I'd suggest that many of those divorces are going to be preventable (presuming they were going to hold together in the first place!), and again, counselling is a good way to help with that (for the remaining spouse).

So, GD, why do you have that sig with this post?? (made me laugh when I saw it)

The therapy might help with divorces that occur once the soldier is back from war, but for all those divorces that happen when the soldier is halfway around the world, being shot at and watching his/her friends get blown up, there is nothing the soldier can even do about it. I understand what their spouses are going through. It's tough to have a family and always having to worry about whether or not your kid's mommy/daddy is going to live or die.

My signiture is from the movie Starship Troopers 3: Marauder. I thorougly enjoy the political satire and corny humor in the first and third movies.

[Slytovhand]

Actually, it was counselling those spouses while the soldier is away, that I was thinking about.

Yep, know the movie, was singing the song the other night as I read it to someone (that's why I laughed... it all came flooding back)

[AFPheonix]

There was an interesting article In Time a few weeks back that relates to this as well. Army recruiters, often vets from the wars going on are offing themselves in alarming numbers, too.

It's going to have to be a change in just how we treat our soldiers coming back, there has to be a change in the entire army on how they view returning vets and the care they need. There is still far too much stigma in accessing mental health care amongst veterans.

[linguist]

repeated tours and stop-loss are hugely demoralizing. my father-in-law just left for his 4th tour in iraq. he's set to retire when he comes back next year, and will be putting in his retirement papers while he's there, but has already been told that there's a good chance he won't be allowed to retire. several in his unit have already been stop-lossed when their terms were up, and he can hardly bear thinking that it might happen to him.

my father-in-law is a great guy. when i first met him he was always happy, always ready with a laugh and a joke. i can't remember the last time i saw him smile, and it scares my wife and i more than a little. he didn't stay in the army for 20+ years because he had nothing better to do. he really loved what he did, but after all he's been through in the last couple of years he just wants out. and we want him back to his old self.

[Seshat]

Let them get out when they're ready to.

Counselling - GOOD counselling, as has been said, from people who know what they're going through because they've been there.

Pre-enlistment counselling. I recently saw a Babylon 5 episode which included a bit of training of the Rangers. And one of the Rangers failed in the training - and was sent to Ranger recruitment. And told to really look at the candidates, and find the ones who want in for the wrong reasons (like he did), and stop them right there.
Don't just accept anyone physically fit enough. Accept people who understand what they're getting into and want to do it.

I've heard that mlitary spouses - at least in some parts of the world - have a kind of rigid culture. I suspect (with no data) that the divorce rate is highest among spouses who don't fit into that culture, because I suspect that they're the ones getting the least social support. At least the ones who do fit into the culture have a 'place' in the world and friends who understand their problems.
Counselling of spouses, and forming of a more accepting military-spouse-culture would be helpful there.

[Vagabond]

I would also venture to stop the US's military's culture/mindset of 'do more with less'.
At the moment, I'm a bit too lazy to look up accurate facts and numbers, please forgive, but, I'll point you in the right direction:
Fact: Last time the US was fighting on 2 fronts (simultaneously) was WWII. We had approximately 500,000 troops then. Now, we are fighting on 2 fronts (Iraq and Aghanistan, not to mention we have people deployed to Somalia, Kosovo, Saudi Arabia, the Persian Gulf, Kuwait and others) and we have approximately 350,000 troops now.
Fact: In WWII, I would hazard that there were approximately maybe 150,000 officers compared to 350,000 enlisted. Nowadays, we have approximately 125,000 officers to 225,000 enlisted.
(Those facts are important because it is the enlisted that actually carry out the tasks and do the missions. The officers generally attend meetings, briefings and plan things. For example. An officer will say "Take that hill!" It is a Sargeant who is actually climbing up that hill to take it.)
Fact: The military is still charged with the mission to be able to carry out any mission asked of it. I haven't read the latest QDR (quadrennial defence review), but I think the military is still tasked with being able to conduct a 2 front war simultaneously, and win.
Fact: Alot of the military budget gets seriously screwed with. One of the first places Congress looks to cut the budget down at, while simultaneously trying to add 'pork' to the budget in their district in the name of National Defence.
SOURCES Several articles in there mention the Air Force doesn't want more C-17's, but Congress is ordering more, because the contracts for the C-17 are spread over approximately 40 states.

So, while the military is tasked to accomplish the mission, the number of missions and tasks only continues to grow, never drop off or reduce. Which in turn stresses the military, the military member and everyone else connected - spouses, children, relatives.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

This is to say nothing of the whole base-closure thing. People resist the closing of unnecessary bases because they feed their towns while completely ignoring the bajillions of dollars poured into a base we don't need. At the very least re-purpose it. If you're deep-snow training base isn't needed, bu tyou can't live without it, make it into a MOUT facility instead. I've heard that most of those are based in desert environs and I do believe it would pay to have a change of climate.

This is to say nothing of plenty of suspicious stuff surrounding the whole dragonskin and XM8 rejections. I don't take much stock in the xm8 being rejected (it had plenty of flaws, chief of which IMO is it's failure to use STANAG magazines instead of the G36 proprietaries which are also incompatible with most gear as well [a mag pouch almost twice the size of that which holds 2 STANAG mags holds only one G36/XM8 mag...])

dragonskin still itches at me, so many independent companies praised it so highly, and it just gets entirely dropped. Doesn't make sense to me, even taking into consideration my limitations as a far-removed observer of the military...

I don't remember specifics, but my uncle (got back from Iraq a year or two ago (give or take, mostly take)) mentioned more than a few shortcomings of the mundane but collectively debilitating kind. Between recountings of the native troops and his current trainee's sillyness and the pictures of what he and his unit did exactly with that 50$ worth of army men I sent him (creativity flows when you've got nothing but time, army men, shoelaces, a lighter and a knife...)

All this while these arse-wipes spend who knows how much on dumbass sculpture gardens and pieces of useless tech... (politicians, that is)

[Vagabond]

Politicians decide which gear the military uses... and well, they're looking out for their constituents, i.e. jobs for their district. Not always what is best for the military. So, I would venture to say that the XM8 and Dragonskin ideas died because their contracts were not spread out of several hundred voting and job-creating districts.
SOURCE
I read this above link frequently, and it will give you a good idea about what is going on in/around the military and with Capitol Hill. Fairly unbiased reporting as they draw from a wide selection of sources, that balanced each other out, sometimes. Either that or just run a google for "Early Bird News" if the link doesn't work.

I could make some fairly bad predictions on what I foresee for the military, but I don't think this is the right thread for it...

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Politicians decide which gear the military uses... and well, they're looking out for their constituents, i.e. jobs for their district. Not always what is best for the military. So, I would venture to say that the XM8 and Dragonskin ideas died because their contracts were not spread out of several hundred voting and job-creating districts.
SOURCE
I read this above link frequently, and it will give you a good idea about what is going on in/around the military and with Capitol Hill. Fairly unbiased reporting as they draw from a wide selection of sources, that balanced each other out, sometimes. Either that or just run a google for "Early Bird News" if the link doesn't work.

I could make some fairly bad predictions on what I foresee for the military, but I don't think this is the right thread for it...

I can't seem to get in, as it seems to require military status of some kind...

and, true enough, although it's moderately related to this thread, it would be better off in it's own....

[Vagabond]

Mmmm... just Google for "Early Bird News"

http://ebird.osd.mil/

I can read it at home, and that's not a military computer. If it doesn't work for you, either take out the 'www.' or I dunno, sorry can't help you much.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Mmmm... just Google for "Early Bird News"

http://ebird.osd.mil/

I can read it at home, and that's not a military computer. If it doesn't work for you, either take out the 'www.' or I dunno, sorry can't help you much.

Gah! curse me for not memorizing my SSN! I'll have to find my slip and/or one of the places I wrote it down... I'll make sure to check that out when I do. thanks!

[Vagabond]

Anytime. It's a news source. That canvasses all over... Feb 12 articles cover USA TOday, Wall Street Journal, NY Times, Boston Globe, Yahoo.com news, Time, Washington Post, etc... you get the idea. Granted they are all military/ Capitol Hill related... but if you want to get an idea about what's going on in those arenas, or just want to get your blood boiling... they're a good read.

[Shangri-laschild]

Actually, it was counselling those spouses while the soldier is away, that I was thinking about.

Yep, know the movie, was singing the song the other night as I read it to someone (that's why I laughed... it all came flooding back)

I know it's not exactly the same, but when my best friend graduated from police training, the morning of graduation there was a meeting for family and close friends or whoever it was that the graduate would want present. Part of this meeting was about things we needed to know. Stuff like what being in a job where you have to be on alert all the time does to you. About how right when they get in the door is the wrong time to bombard whem with stuff because they needed time to sort of relax and come back down from all of that. I may not be explaining exactly right but basically it told us about what to expect and such. It was very helpful information. Stuff like that would be very good as well as continual help for them and help for the soldiers themselves.