Abortion Rights for Fathers?

[Evandril]

Kinda stretching it, but according the Decleration of Independence, everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. Forcing a man to give up his life definitely takes away his right to the persuit of happiness.

'Life' does not refer to what you do on a day to day basis...It refers to the act of breathing on a regular basis. If they take that away to 'help' the child, something is seriously wrong. That would also be the only way to take away your right to *PERSUE* happiness. You can lock me in a cage in the most horrible conditions possible...I can still persue happiness...Unlikely I will BE happy, but that was never promised.

If you want to have sex, and you don't want to take precautions, then be prepared to support a child or two for life. I don't care what sex you are, or who was supposed to be 'taking care' of that detail...If you, yourself, are not taking precautions, or they are not enough...You do what is needed. Is it 'fair' that you *cannot* make things equal between the sexes? Nope, but it *IS* a fact. All the laws in the world will not make Pi equal 3, no matter what politians may think about th matter

[kiwi]

This is a situation that will NEVER be fair, but you know what... life isn't fair and it never will be

but the fact of the matter is, the pregancy is taking place in the woman's body and that means she has the choice like it or not.

If you are not prepared to face the consequences of your actions then cross your legs ladies and gents. There will always be a chance, no matter how small that if you have sex a pregnancy could occur. Even if the girl is taking birth control correctly, even if you use condoms and spermacide and every contraceptive out there, it could still happen.

You have sex knowing that fact... so deal with it.

[Cat]

What a great topic to discuss!!

Ok, as ya'll might now, I am female, and decided to be child free....this may cloud my opinions.

This is a hard topic to give a black and white answer to, but I'll give this one situation:

The duo do the deep, with or w/ protection (it can fail), she is now preggers. They are not a committed couple, whether its a 1 night stand, a fling, what have you. She decided to keep it, he doe not want kids. I think in this situation he should not be forced to give support, if he does, cool, but he should at least that much say.

Now, if they are indeed a committed couple, she gets preggers (planned or not) and then he decides not to have kids, well, then I can see demanding support. They are in it together.

Its a tough situation with no clear cut answer....but an interesting one.

Now me, I never will have kids. I tell potential long term relationship this, prety much one Day 1. I use 2 types of protection, and will get my tubed tied as soon as I can a doc to do it and when I can afford to.

Wow...long post, sorry....but this was a great topic

[McDreidel09]

Kinda stretching it, but according the Decleration of Independence, everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. Forcing a man to give up his life definitely takes away his right to the persuit of happiness.

That's the exact attitude my dad takes on. He had unprotected sex with my mom when she was 16 and a few months after her 17th birthday, I was born. 4 years later, he had unprotected sex with her and out came my sister.

When I was in eighth grade, he moved to FL because he didn't get to live his life.

My mom doesn't believe in abortions and she couldn't give my sister and me up.

So, I have a father who is not really there for me because he needs to live his own life. How does that help the child? It doesn't. I've been pulled into the counselor's office many times because of issues and now I have attachment issues.

Think that one over again. You have sex, even protected, there is a chance a conception occurs. Women are expected to step up. Why isn't the man expected to step up?

[Greenday]

Women are expected to step up. Why isn't the man expected to step up?

Seeing as how women have the option to end a pregnancy, I believe they have an out.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

No offense, Greenday, but don't have sex then. That is not a fair burden to put on the woman- or the child that you would be -in part- responsible for creating.

Thank you. You beat me to it.

Here's the thing...a woman cannot walk away from it. So a man shouldn't be able to, either.

If you 100 percent, no compromise, no discussion do not want a child, then do not have sexual-hide-the-salami-intercourse. That is where babies come from. Yes, I realize that humans have sex for pleasure and not just for procreation. However no matter how great sex is, it's not worth altering the rest of your life for if that is what you don't want. And there are plenty of ways for a couple to share intimacy that will not lead to pregnancy.

So here's a question for you guys out there who all think the burden of birth contol is on the woman: The only way she can be absolutely 100 percent certain that she won't get pregant and be faced with an enormously life-altering decision to make, is to not allow you to put your penis in her vagina. She knows you can walk away from it. She also knows she cannot. So she tells you that she's not risking that. What do you do? Do you stay with her and respect her choice or do you dump her for a chick willing to risk everything she wants in her life for your night of pleasure?

[DesignFox]

Seeing as how women have the option to end a pregnancy, I believe they have an out.

I think they would have an out if it weren't for the stigma attached to a) un-married women getting pregnant (although we do see this changing) or b) abortion in general.

Men have a much easier out simply because no one looks at a man and knows he knocked someone up.

Women have to wear it on their bodies- it isn't exactly a secret when a woman is carrying a baby. And if the "morally superior" would keep their noses out of other women's uteri we wouldn't have an evil stigma attached to the idea of someone choosing to have an abortion. (Now granted, I don't think women should be encouraged to use abortion as a means of birth control. BUT I feel that if women and men are properly educated, it would be a rare consequence)

So, while I agree with you in theory, Greenday, it's not that simple.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Let's address the abortion thing, I meant to mention it.

When I say a woman can't walk away, I am taking that into account. Even if she chooses to have an abortion, she still can't walk away. It's her body and her ultimate choice. I don't think any woman can choose that step and remain entire unscathed.

I'm not saying a woman should never have an abortion, ever. I'm just saying that the cavalier attitude towards it is extremely damaging. Her decision, no matter what she chooses, will be hanging over her head to some extent for the rest of her life. That's what I mean when I say she can't walk away.

The stakes for women are much higher. That is not fair, but it's the way it is. Life's not fair.

The fact that men need to face this, too is also not fair, but it's the way it is. Life's not fair.

[tropicsgoddess]

I still think that if a woman wants to get an abortion, it should be her decision and her decision alone. After all it's HER body.

[Pedersen]

I've stayed out of this one, since it's a bit overly sensitive for me. However, RK's comments here seem to say that men can just walk away, and be unscathed. That's a blanket generalization, and far from true.

I've had three of the women in my life pregnant during the time I was with them.

The first one we gave up for adoption. I never even saw the girl who was my daughter. I couldn't let myself see her, because if I did, I couldn't give her up, and I needed to do that for her sake. I could not have been a good father at that point in my life. I don't think about her every day, but I do think about her quite frequently. She's 14 years old now. I hope she's living a good life, and that things are going well for her. It's very unlikely I will ever know, though, since I'll likely never see her. And that hurts me still. I wonder what she looks like. I wonder if her adoptive parents have managed to succeed, and give her a good life. I wonder what her first name is, even. I will likely never know the answers to those questions.

The second one, there was a miscarriage. I was ready. I wanted to be a father. I wanted to help bring up a child. And then came the miscarriage. The worst part of it was that I had to be the strong one, the one who held her up. I never got to cry. I put my emotions in a box, put the box in some dark corner of my mind, and lost the key. I've never found it since. That still leaves a hole in my heart to this day.

The third one... We had to have an abortion. My wife is incapable of carrying to term due to the medications she must take to control her arthritis (she was diagnosed with it before she turned 25).

I think about each of these incidents often. Each of them hurts in its own unique way. Will the daughter I gave up for adoption ever seek me out? If she does, will she find me? If so, what will I do?

And what about the two that never were? One of them, the universe took this away from me. Something so precious, and it was gone. Nothing I could do to affect anything. All I could do was watch a dream die. And the other? I couldn't ask my wife to go through nine months of hell with what her arthritis would do to her. So, again, I watched the dream die. I even helped it happen. And the pain from that...

I tell myself to this day that I don't want children. I tell myself that my life is better for me, and for them, because I'm too selfish. I say it often enough that, most times, I even manage to believe it.

RK, your post implies long term emotional scarring happens for women, but men can just walk away without issue. For some, that is undoubtedly true. You have no idea how wrong you are for the rest of us, though.

And I hope, for your sake, you never do manage to understand it fully.

[Nyoibo]

Sex makes babies, it takes 2 parties to do that, either or both parties can walk away from it, but yeah, if you really don't want to have to deal with the prospect of an abortion, guys don't stick your schwingschwong in their hoopajoop, and women, don't open your bajingo for business.

It's not exactly hard to go without sex, take a cold shower or something.

[Cat]

Ya know....its debates like this that make me so ticked that I cannot go and get my tubes tied...that bs attitude "but your female, you will want kids." Nope, not me, not ever. A guy can get snipped (I think it fairly easy to get this done, but lacking a penis, I never asked a doctor if that is so), but gals? Nope....we have to pop out a few first. But that is O/T


I will still maintain the guy should have a right in whether he wants to rear a child, if we truly want equal rights, it has to go both ways. This is why you really need to talk to your partner, before you dance.

(ugh now I have to go to work and can't comment til I get back home)

[Boozy]

RK, your post implies long term emotional scarring happens for women, but men can just walk away without issue. For some, that is undoubtedly true. You have no idea how wrong you are for the rest of us, though.

I think she's very well aware that not all men are like that. She's happily married to the father of her child, after all.

All I got from her post was that if a man was the type of person to be able to walk away from an unplanned pregnancy unscathed, then there is no physical reason he can't. That's it.

[Greenday]

It's not exactly hard to go without sex, take a cold shower or something.

For the record, that doesn't work.

Ya know....its debates like this that make me so ticked that I cannot go and get my tubes tied...that bs attitude "but your female, you will want kids." Nope, not me, not ever. A guy can get snipped (I think it fairly easy to get this done, but lacking a penis, I never asked a doctor if that is so), but gals? Nope....we have to pop out a few first. But that is O/T

DAMNIT! I KNEW I forgot to talk to my general practitioner last week. God knows when I'll be able to see him next too.

[blas87]

I definetly would get snipped as early as you possibly can, Greenday. God knows, I'd hate to be the poor girl you accidently knock up and go running from the hills away from when she delivers you the bad news because this baby will "ruin your life" and be a detriment. That poor girl will probably have to pay for that abortion all on her own or borrow the money, or she'll have to carry that baby to term, the physical and mental changes all taken into consideration as well (WHICH MEN DO NOT GAIN WEIGHT OR GET STRETCH MARKS AND CAN STILL DRINK, SMOKE AND EAT FISH, I THANK YOU!) all the while knowing that you wouldn't bother taking any responsibility for something you both knew could happen from having sex.

I am on the Depo shot and I make my boyfriend wear condoms. There is still a SLIGHT possibility that I could still get knocked up. I'm ready to deal accordingly. Am I going to be upset if I get knocked up? You fucking bet I will be. Will I think my life is over? Probably. But I will be a fucking adult about it and go over my options and pick what path is best for me. If my boyfriend were to try to run away, you can bet I'd be chasing him down and I'd break his legs while he was trying to run. You do NOT run away from your responsibilites in life. Even if you go down the abortion path, you do NOT pretend it never happened and try to avoid the fact that the pregnancy did happen. Sometimes you have to be a fucking adult.

Unless you want to wear 2 condoms at a time and have your girlfriend on the Depo shot as well, you better damn well be ready to accept that no matter what, there is always a SLIGHT chance pregnancy could happen. I am living proof that birth control can fail.

If you cannot handle the fact that there is always an eensy beensy tiny little chance that conception could occur, DO NOT HAVE SEX.