Abortion Rights for Fathers?

[Greenday]

Two condoms at the same time is actually a bad idea. The friction between the two help destroy eachother.

I don't do vaginal intercourse anymore. I don't want to deal with the issue of pregnancy so I'm being smart enough to make sure it can't happen. I don't hook up with random girls so I wouldn't find myself in the situation where I would ever feel the need to do such a drastic thing. And if I was married, and accidently knocked my wife/fiance/girlfriend up, I'd stay with her and go with her choice.

But until I'm at a time where I can really do such a thing, I'm not having sex. I'm not taking my chances. I'm waiting till I graduate college and have a full time job and a serious girlfriend that I could spend the rest of my life with. Because that's what I'd do if I got my girlfriend knocked up. I don't want to have any regrets about who I spend the rest of my life with so I'm not going to do anything that could put me in the position where that could happen.

I thank you for attacking my character. As you can read in my post, I'm not dumb enough to put myself in the position where this situation would arise. Maybe my posts sound bitter because I think men do not have any decent valid options. If they want nothing to do with the baby, they either become a complete jackass and run, or they are stuck paying child support for the next 22 years, with no say whatsoever on it. blas, I've always enjoyed reading your stories on the board. I will continue to do so. But don't assume just because I care so much about my life that I'm an idiot and a jackass.

[blas87]

I sincerely apologize for how offensive I came across to you, Greenday, as I have always considered you a friend on both of these boards....and sometimes, you and I seem to be in the minority on opinion against everyone else on here. I'd really hate for that to be broken.

I just get really, really touchy when it comes to this type of thing. The way you posted in the previous pages made it seem like you'd be the type of guy who would run off.

Look Greenday, I understand you and I are a lot alike. Both of us want to go to school and have careers, and neither of us want a baby getting in the way. And no, there is nothing selfish about that, and neither is wording that way. I have often been heard quoting "I will never let a man or a baby get in the way of my dreams", and I mean it. However, I also realize that if there were to ever be an accident, that I cannot just shrug it off and treat it like a detriment. That I have a responsibility to do something about it.

Before you just clarified above, you worded so it seemed that you'd give no consideration to the girl or the situation at hand. And I do sincerely apologize, as trust me, I'd be infuriated if I ever got knocked up, and I'd feel my life was over (at least for a little bit).

I really did not mean to bash your character. I got very touchy about the subject of dead beat dads and took it way too far and bashed you instead. I am very sorry.

And yes, I know 2 condoms is a bad idea. They taught us that in 10th grade

[Greenday]

Thank you. I was posting more on my opinions of how fathers just don't seem to have any rights. I just forgot to mention what I'd actually do in that situation.

[blas87]

I've never even heard of a guy wanting to keep the baby and the girl wanting an abortion. But then again, there's a lot of other "common" things that I've never heard of or witnessed. Most likely because of my sheltered, small town redneck upbringing. I'm not doubting it happens, I've just never seen it.

I think the main reason men aren't given much of a chance is because they aren't the ones who physically carry the baby for 9 months in their ever-expanding uterus, gaining tons of weight, getting stretch marks, vomitting like crazy the first few months, getting nauseated at the most normal of smells, craving the silliest food combinations, etc etc.

It also doesn't help that we live in a society where a lot of men do try to run and hide when they knock a girl up, and sometimes it takes wage garnishments and even jail time before a guy will even consider stepping up. I don't doubt there are deadbeat mothers, as MadMike's ex is a prime example of that. It's probably just because we rarely hear of it.

[Sylvia727]

I've never even heard of a guy wanting to keep the baby and the girl wanting an abortion.

My friend. Her dad paid his one-night-stand not to have an abortion. He was desperate; she'd lied about her birth control but he didn't want to let his baby die. This guy let the baby momma have free room and board at his place for years until she got bored and left. Then he paid her to surrender all parental rights to the child. Did he "buy" his daughter away from her mother? Oh yes. Was the best thing that ever happened to her? Oh hell yes. My friend is the only good thing that's ever come from that woman, and she's much better off without that influence in her life. Anecdotal evidence, I know, but it does happen.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Pedersen, first of all, I'm so sorry you have that pain in your life. You are not the type of person I am talking about. I have a male friend haunted by that same grief. I don't know if it was an abortion or a miscarriage. I don't ask and it doesn't matter. It's a horrible loss, a big hole in the guy's psyche. That's all that really matters. So yeah, I understand, at least on the level that I can, that men suffer that sort of loss as well.

But Boozy is right...I am simply saying that a lot of men (actually, a lot of women, too) have this cavalier atitude about abortion that they can just do that and never think about it again. It very rarely works that way, particularly for women. That life is inside them, it's not the abstract concept that it is for a lot of men.

I know fathers, WONDERFUL fathers, even, for whom an unseen child is an abstract concept. It's not abstract for women, it's part of their bodies.

Even if a woman chooses abortion, she still is the one who has to undergo it, suffer the pain and physical trauma of it, and then most likely be haunted by it for the end of her days. The man may, too, I'm not saying he won't. But it's not his body it's happening to. And there are far and away too many men who never think about it again.

[AdminAssistant]

Mom miscarried between having my sister and me; it would've been a boy. Dad definitely suffers from it - he always wanted a son, was told he would have one three times. Twice he got girls and the one time he was going to get a son, it was taken away from him.

You know, I see this cavalier attitude towards abortion in the media, too. I seem to remember an episode of Sex in the City where the girls are all eating lunch together and tallying up how many abortions they'd each had. They were joking about it. Sad.

[kiwi]

where the girls are all eating lunch together and tallying up how many abortions they'd each had. They were joking about it. Sad.

one of my friends at school had 3 abortions by the time she was 16, she thought it was a laugh and that it made her cool and sexy somehow because soooooo many guys wanted to sleep with her and that made her better than the "loser virgins".

I always felt very sad for her. To have to validate herself by sleeping around.

Im prochoice but that doesn't mean I think it should be viewed as a good thing, it can be very tramatic for all involved, physically and emotionally.

[the_std]

Y'know, I'd rather see people making light of their abortions than not having the chance to get them at all.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Y'know, I'd rather see people making light of their abortions than not having the chance to get them at all.

Agreed. Plus in some ways, it's better that women who would not make good mothers in ten billion years have them, even if they're using them as a form of birth control, rather than birth a child and then neglect, abandon or abuse it.

Two things. First of all, my mother miscarried a baby between myself and my older brother. Both my parents still think of him/her; they never knew what gender the baby was. It took my mother a year or so to get over it, then she had me. An abortion is really an artificial miscarriage, and if a woman suffers badly during a miscarriage, then to me someone must be made of stone to not feel at all during an abortion, even if she chose to have one. A man might suffer along with his girlf/wife, but ultimately, it is her body and the damage is done to her body and mind. The man can sympathise, but he can't really ever understand.

Second, I would never have children of my own. Even my mother agrees with me that I'd make a terrible mother and it would be catastrophic for me to have kids, on account of having had depression and of my AS. Plus, I'm far too selfish to want to ruin my body in that way, or to give up all my money and spare time. However, both my boyf and I are taking all precautions to stop this from happening. He always uses a condom and I take the pill. In the past, we had a scare; straight to the chemist we went to get the morning after pill the morning after the condom split.

Now, to the topic. It's a fact that until medical science figures out a way to incubate a fetus after removing it from the mother's body, that the onus on deciding its fate rests solely with the mother. As people have already said, it is her body, she that must carry the baby for nine months and take the risks involved in birthing it, NOT him no matter how attached he might be to it. Therefore, he has no right to either try and force a woman to have an abortion, or to force her to give birth. No, it's not fair, but life isn't fair, either.

[guywithashovel]

Many ultra liberal, flag-waving feminazis seem to be of the opinion that the choice to have an abortion is all on the woman, since she is the one who carries the baby and gives birth to it.

Okay, fair enough. That's your opinion.

But I don't think they realize that the same logic can be used against them if they try to hit a guy up for child support. She carried the baby and gave birth to it, SHE can pay for it. And yes, I do realize that I've probably ticked some people off in a major way by saying that, but you know what, it needs to be said.

Of course, the counter argument is probably going to be, "Well, when she's pregnant, it's HER body, and that evil, evil man who stuck his nasty peepee in her (at her own consent) should not have any control over her body." In actuality, though, she is pregnant with something that BOTH of you created. So unless the woman is pregnant because she is raped, this argument does not hold water.

[AFPheonix]

One small problem with your stance, Shovel. The father helped to make a new individual, whether he wanted to or not. Guess what, he/she is there now, and part of being a big boy or girl is taking responsibility for your actions. You made the choice to take part in a behavior that caused reproduction, you get to deal with the fallout and make sure that this new human being gets a decent start in life.
It's not about the mom or the dad, it's about the kid.

[Nyoibo]

For the record, that doesn't work.

I know, it's supposed to be a warm shower.


Oh, and why can't pregnant women eat fish?

[guywithashovel]

One small problem with your stance, Shovel. The father helped to make a new individual, whether he wanted to or not. Guess what, he/she is there now, and part of being a big boy or girl is taking responsibility for your actions. You made the choice to take part in a behavior that caused reproduction, you get to deal with the fallout and make sure that this new human being gets a decent start in life.
It's not about the mom or the dad, it's about the kid.

I was making an analogy moreso than taking a stance on child support. I actually do think that if a parent---be it a father or a mother---helps create a life and then gets up and leaves, then he or she should pay child support.

The point I was trying to make is that so many people seem to take the stance that "its the woman's body, so she alone decides whether or not to have the abortion." I was pointing out that this same line of reasoning could be applied to the child support issue, and is therefore faulty.

[Lace Neil Singer]

One small problem with your stance, Shovel. The father helped to make a new individual, whether he wanted to or not. Guess what, he/she is there now, and part of being a big boy or girl is taking responsibility for your actions. You made the choice to take part in a behavior that caused reproduction, you get to deal with the fallout and make sure that this new human being gets a decent start in life.
It's not about the mom or the dad, it's about the kid.

This. It seems pretty unfair, not to mention immature, to make a child suffer just cuz you're mad at the mother for allowing it to be born without your consent.

Also, I'd say that any woman who deliberately tricked a guy into getting her pregant would deserve to have to raise the child alone; however, ultimately, it's not the mother who would suffer in that case, it would be the child.

The point I was trying to make is that so many people seem to take the stance that "its the woman's body, so she alone decides whether or not to have the abortion." I was pointing out that this same line of reasoning could be applied to the child support issue, and is therefore faulty.

Not really; you can't compare what is a risky medical procedure, on both sides (birth or abortion) with a legal issue. Being forced to either give birth or go thru abortion is not comparable in any way with being forced to pay child support, so there's really no point in making the comparison.