Second Hand Smoke

[DesignFox]

Well, I call BS on the whole, "border town bars will go out of business" thing.

I live in NJ. I used to frequently hang out in Hoboken. Which happens to be across the river from Manhattan. When New York state passed their "smokers are teh evol ROWR!" laws, the smokers came to hang out in Hoboken bars...and the non-smokers went to hang out in the Manhattan bars.

And guess what happened? Not long after, NJ passed the same laws as New York did.

None of the bars went out of business. As a matter of fact, you can go to Hoboken anytime from Thursday-Saturday and find business THRIVING.

Anti-smoking laws didn't hurt business on either side of the river. At all.

AND

For the record, (at least in NJ) there happen to be these things called hooka bars that cater specifically to smokers. Some of my co-workers are smokers and that's where THEY all go to hang out when they want to drink and smoke.

If they want to hang out with us evil, single minded, health conscious non-smokers, they "suck it up" and come to the regular bars or restaurants.

I never went out to bars before the smoking ban. Like Greenday and RK have stated, I just couldn't deal with it. Now, I TOO can go out and have a good time and not worry about smelling like an ashtray, waking up with dirty sheets and clothes and smoke smell clinging to my hair for days on end. I can go out and not suffer from coughing and sinus headaches and other bad allergic reactions. And yes, many of the bigger bars have outdoor seating where smoking is allowed. I no longer go outside, but hey, small price to pay in my opinion to be able to sit down and enjoy a meal or drink without having crap blown in my face.

I appreciate all you smokers who are considerate. I really do. My co-workers are this way, so yes, I know you exist!

But the vast majority of people are inconsiderate assholes. So I really applaud smoking being relegated to the outdoors. In my mind, it is the most fair solution to the problem.

Trust me, not even all my smoking friends are considerate- I really am glad the law tells them to take it outside. (and they are very few and far between since college ended)

Anyway. Sorry. I have no sympathy regarding smoking bans.

[Boozy]

I've never understood the "bars will go out of business" argument at all. And I use to smoke.

But I never made special trips to bars to smoke. If the sole purpose of my evening was to smoke, I'd stay home.

When they banned smoking at bars, I stopped smoking at bars. But I didn't stop going.

There are lots of reasons to drink at a bar (social, mostly) but smoking isn't one of them.

[blas87]

There was actually a very big impact here in this part of Wisconsin after the smoking ban was installed.....but it didn't happen until winter.

Many of the bars that were now nonsmoking had beer gardens, or gated/fenced areas outside of the bar where you could take your drink outside and smoke. During the summer and fall, it was no big deal to go outside and smoke.

Then winter came. This winter was absolutely bitter cold, with some days in January being double digits below zero with windchills that can snap your nipples right off.

The bars that are right on the edge of town, and technically not considered to be part of the city, are still smoking bars. Those bars got so much extra business that it was even in the local newspapers about how much business was booming. Now the smokers didn't have to freeze outside.

The bars that cater to the college kids? They'll never be impacted by a smoking ban, because kids will always go there in any weather.....but the bars like the ones who cater to third shift workers or adults who work for a living.....now they have to find somewhere else to go after work to have a few drinks and a few smokes.

[Peppergirl]

For the record, (at least in NJ) there happen to be these things called hooka bars that cater specifically to smokers. Some of my co-workers are smokers and that's where THEY all go to hang out when they want to drink and smoke.

.

THIS...

This is all many of us are asking for, and is currently not an option in Cincinnati. There are CIGAR bars, but one can't smoke cigarettes there

As far as calling BS on the bars going out of business, you yourself said that (for awhile) smokers were going into Manhattan to drink/smoke. Then Manhattan did it and they all came back, hence business is thriving.

That's all well and good, except for when you live on the border of Kentucky, which still has counties that are very big tobacco producers, that will never happen there. Every region is different with this situation, and my area is a really touchy region, bordering on such a big tobacco state.

One can literally WALK across various bridges on the Ohio river and go to bars that smoke. And two river taverns have gone on record as attributing THEIR closing as smoking-ban related. One interviewed in the paper about it.

Bullshit? Maybe. But the fact remains that it HAS happened here and two bar owners have claimed smoking-ban as reason for closure.

Look, I'm not saying people shouldn't smoke outside. I love the places that have heaters/ac units on some of the newer decks alot of places have built. I'm simply asking what's so wrong with certain places (i.e your 'hookah' bars) that cater to smokers?? How does a place like that affect the health of a non smoker if it's for smokers?

I respect the reasoning behind it...I do. I just don't think it's fair that smokers don't have a place to go that they can call their own. The only one's they'd be hurting is themselves.

[Peppergirl]

I've never understood the "bars will go out of business" argument at all. And I use to smoke.

But I never made special trips to bars to smoke. If the sole purpose of my evening was to smoke, I'd stay home.

When they banned smoking at bars, I stopped smoking at bars. But I didn't stop going.

There are lots of reasons to drink at a bar (social, mostly) but smoking isn't one of them.

I didn't either. And I smoke outside if I feel like enjoying one.

I'm just asking why it would be so god-awful for a few specialized places who cater to smokers to be in exsistence. Why would non-smokers care? They would just not go there. Am I missing something?

[Greenday]

I didn't either. And I smoke outside if I feel like enjoying one.

I'm just asking why it would be so god-awful for a few specialized places who cater to smokers to be in exsistence. Why would non-smokers care? They would just not go there. Am I missing something?

Because if it's allowed at all, they will all do it.

I find it ironic that as I read the last reply, an anti-smoking commercial came on.

[Peppergirl]

Because if it's allowed at all, they will all do it.

I respectfully disagree. That's a very sweeping presumption. I'm sure there would be enough legislation and BS red tape to get through. And many places here (in the northern parts of the city, away from kentucky) have done well with the outdoor smoking decks.

I find it ironic that as I read the last reply, an anti-smoking commercial came on.

That IS pretty ironic.

[DesignFox]

Peppergirl- the effects might be harsher right now while the law is still new.

Maybe once your states get into the swing of things, it will change.

Like I said, around here, smokers/non-smokers just swapped sides of the river for awhile. Now it doesn't matter where anyone goes.

And, despite the existence of a few hookah bars, the state isn't crawling with smoker bars. I think a lot of local places probably found it to be more profitable to stay smoke free- much larger customer base now.

Anyway. For a long time in NJ the law only applied to restaurants. So some bars, in an effort to avoid the ban, stopped serving food. Now it's public places period. And I am relieved.

I used to CRINGE when my friends in college wanted to go to a bar, and maybe once in a blue moon I'd go.

I still can't believe the law is that new...it feels like its been in place forever. I'm thrilled. I honestly used to hate going out to eat in PA because the law hasn't been in effect over there. yuck!

[the_std]

And, despite the existence of a few hookah bars, the state isn't crawling with smoker bars. I think a lot of local places probably found it to be more profitable to stay smoke free- much larger customer base now.

Well, if that's the case, why not open up a few smoker bars? If they're not going to become the norm again, then a few isn't going to kill it for the non-smokers, and will make some smokers happy.

[Greenday]

I was unaware there were ANY smoker bars allowed in NJ under the laws that came into effect a few years ago. I haven't seen one since. But I'm pretty convinvced if any bar can find a way to let people smoke, they all would do so, so I don't think we should leave any loopholes open to allow that to happen.

I know in PA the laws aren't as strict as they are in NJ. With the new laws there, most bars have complied and become smoke free. But there is one bar that allows smoking but I don't know what makes them different that they can allow it. You'd think most smokers would go there, but the smokers I know don't. They all go to the non-smoking bars. Maybe it's because the smoking bar sucks, but I dunno.

[DesignFox]

Well, if that's the case, why not open up a few smoker bars? If they're not going to become the norm again, then a few isn't going to kill it for the non-smokers, and will make some smokers happy.

That was my point. If you really have to smoke that badly, go to the hookah bar or a cigar bar. Those are the only places I know of that you are permitted to smoke indoors.

And I do think it should stay that way.

[Peppergirl]

That was my point. If you really have to smoke that badly, go to the hookah bar or a cigar bar. Those are the only places I know of that you are permitted to smoke indoors.

And I do think it should stay that way.

Actually, I think many smokers would agree with you. I have no issue going to a 'smoking-only' place or, as an alternative, going outside in the good weather.

What seems to be the bone of contention, at least with ME, is there are some people saying smokers DON'T deserve a place all their own.

[Daskinor]

With the latest swing (last 5-8 years) in the anti-smoking movement. Businesses actually have little incentive to find loopholes in there local laws. Opting to simply tell them to go outside. Now your local numbers can fluctuate depending on what state you live, and the average level of education in the area. But less then 20% of adults in America smoke.

When blanket laws went to effect in many locations in the country. Some bar's would see more business. Majority saw no change while very few saw less business.

So in essence after the initial shock and awe of the laws being passed wore off. For most there was little incentive to do anything for smokers. Smokers who would stop coming, in most part where replaced by ones who would go out if they did not have to deal with smokers.